"Draw" in Jn 6:44--What does it mean in your opinion???

what is IMPOSSIBLE for man IS possible for God!
NNE indeed will come and accept jesus to save them left to ourselves, for our hearts are deceitful and wicked, but that is why God must and does directlyintervene to save out of humanity His group/people, we call them the Elect!

 

What would make it incorrect?

The fallen nature cannot come to God, or

or that God gives a new nature (including will) so that that person may believe? ​

Or

is it that a believer submits to either the will God has implanted as part of the new nature, or submits to the will of the fallen old nature?​

I do not hold that the natural man can stir up some natural ability to be acceptable to the nature and character of God.

 

According to John 6? Where in John 6 did you get that? It's not there.

People are saved by the grace of God. If God left it up to choice, all would choose exactly what they want and that would be as agedman "what is fallen."

 

I have not seen anyone say natural man can. So what is your point?

 

I never referenced John 6 The bible tells us to choose so we can choose.

 

So are you saying that God and man are equal partners in salvation?

Consider:

God the Son: made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:[Philippians 2:7] Holy God lived among sinful man!

God the Son: hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: [1 Peter 3:18]

Now for man’s part in his Salvation, as described in Romans 3:10-18:

10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15. Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16. Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17. And the way of peace have they not known:
18. There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now if there is none that seeketh after God. and There is no fear of God before their eyes.how is it that they work with God to save some?

 

Who were those given to Christ?

Specifically, the notice the reference to 12 apostles as referenced in John 6 after the rest walk away. These are the ones Christ was given to train as the foundation for the church. The rest of Israel was being judicially hardened (John 12:39), which is the reason they cannot come to Christ. They can't come unless they are enabled, and the rest weren't being enabled YET. God had to keep them in their rebellion so as to accomplish his redemptive plan.

Correct. But does that mean the rest are certainly condemned to hell as unchosen repobates, or could it be that some of them are the same ones who come to faith in Acts 2 after Christ is raised up and Peter preaches the Gospel to them for the first time?

In JOhn 6 the Gospel hadn't been sent yet and the Spirit hadn't yet been poured out. He wasn't drawing ALL MEN to himself until after he was raised up (JN 12:32)

Are we being judicially hardened like Israel was?

What does scripture teach us?

39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40 "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Who is 'their' in reference to? Israel. Also...

26 " 'Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." 27 For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' 28 "Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"

Israel was being hardened in their rebellion, but the Gentiles 'will listen.'

 

The Bible also says to be holy, but we cannot be holy. And you were referencing John 6. this thread is about John 6 and the comment I originally said something to you about was John 6.

Here's you post that you referenced John 6 which is the point of the entire discussion.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1788331&postcount=19

 

I am saying that according to scripture God elects and man chooses.

 

The bible says we shall be holy. I belkieve God to be true in what He says.

 

I still haven't heard a sufficient answer for this question:

If men are all born Totally Depraved in the sense that they cannot willingly believe and repent even if confronted with the clear gospel appeal, then why did Jesus hide the truth from them in parables to prevent the Israelite audiences from believing and repenting? (ref. Mark 4, Matt 13 etc)

 

But you are not holy and will never be holy(well, once your not holy your not holy).

The point is that you made an argument that isn't consistent.

 

Same difference and further supports my point.

 

Well you are wrong. According to Scripture man will not choose God. I even put the Scripture there for you to read.

 

Well said agedman. That truth makes ridiculous the argument by Arminians that the Doctrines of Grace make a preprogramed idiot out of a man. Until God the Holy Spirit gives man that new nature they are as the Apostle Paul said: in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:[Ephesians 2:2]

John Dagg writes of this new creation in Jesus Christ [Manual of Theology, pages 277ff] as follows: “So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed”

2 Corinthians 5:17, KJV
17. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dagg further notes:

“The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.”

“The mode in which the Holy Spirit effects this change, is beyond our understanding. All God's ways are unsearchable; and we might as well attempt to explain how he created the world, as how he new-creates the soul. With reference to this subject, the Saviour said, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[John 3:8, KJV] We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.[James 1:18, KJV] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God, because their knowledge of him is not connected with love. The mere presentation of the truth to the mind, is not all that is needed, in producing love to God in the heart.”

 

Well you are wrong. Scripture tells man to choose and the scripture itself is it was moves man along with the convicting work of the Spirit.

 

Then you do not believe the word of God.

 

Well that's kinda a rude and untruthful thing to say of me. Since you have moved away from saying anything about the word of God in the last few posts anyway, I'll consider you just have nothing to say more about "draw" in John 6 and now have just resorted to ad hominem statements.

 

But through Christ we are made Holy and blameless in his sight.