Drinking

My Dad used to say that minced horseradish sauce would do that--and he was right!

 

Can't tell emotion from sarcasm, eh?

 

LOL---Loosening up a little I see JJ!

 

OK.....but I'd prefer the Scotch....MacCallum 15 Yr. Horseradish sauce will blow a hole thru your sinuses. I put it on Burgers, Roast Beef Sandwiches & Nathans French-fries.

also, I prefer scotch with fig newtons.....you dunk them.

 

Those two can help the layman, but for professional work they are out of date, being written before the many papyri discoveries of the early 20th century.

My intent was to portray exactly what the governor of the feast said. I believe a good translator preserves ambiguity, so that is what my team tried to do.

Equivalence is a very tricky and controversial subject in translation studies. I favor "optimal equivalence" (NKJV & CSB), wherein we know that perfect equivalence is a linguistic impossibility, but we strive for the optimal rendering in the target language. As you may know, Eugene Nida's method called for a "dynamic" equivalence, in which the "dynamic" element was not tied down to a root meaning (see his Lexical Semantics of the Greek NT), but was "dynamic" in the sense that the target language (his word was "receptor") reader "received" the rendering in an existential way, hopefully just like the original reader.

Good point. But Japanese get drunk at every party, including wedding receptions. They even have a sake drinking ceremony at a Shinto wedding.

From the historical evidence, I view the "wine" served in John 2 as possibly of several varieties: brand new undiluted grape juice, grape juice somewhat fermented (depending on the age), more highly fermented wine (thus the possible drunkenness), reconstituted grape juice (they had several ways of preserving it), etc.

And why does it make sense only with alcohol? In Japan one company diluted their grape juice, and we could tell by the taste. What I have here in the US for breakfast every morning is pure, undiluted, delightful stuff. There are also different varieties of grape juice depending on the variety of grapes.

Here's an interesting website on that: Wine and Juice Grape Varieties

Also, do some research on Lucius Junius Moderatus Columella, a first century agriculturist who wrote on "wine" and preserving grape drinks.

 

Here is the thing....do you know the brand?

 

What would be the translation philosophy of the Nas then, as they seem to be striving to do what the Nkjv did, to maintain as much as possible a word for word meaning intent, and yet also allowing for more dynamic when the situations calls for it that fashion!

 

Only if you don't want to drink rot gut. My Great Grandfather drank a plum whisky
Slivovitz. Generally a shot before he would go to work (In the Mines) ....and its disgusting, and it burns & kicks & slaps you around. Think what ordeals he had to go through to have to drink that awful stuff to steady his nerves. Also he lived a long life but he also plowed fields with two teams of horses.

 

When I was studying chemicals used in forestry, and their toxicity, one phrase offered was, "The dose makes the poison." We see it in one of the most commonly prescribed blood thinner meds, warfarin, which in much higher dose is employed as an effective rat poison. At the other extreme, I read some years ago that a person seeking a total internal "cleansing" drank so much water, many gallons/day, that the electrolyte balance became so out of whack that death by heart failure followed. I would not choose to base my abstinence on "alcohol is a poison" (my rationale was noted several pages upthread) even though the statement is factual.

 

Thanks, that makes sense. Alcohol has long been used as a medicine, and I believe that's what Paul meant when he told Timothy to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake." The alcohol would have killed bacteria, I suppose.

I'm not averse to alcohol for a cough medicine. There is nothing in the Bible that says that alcohol of some sort passing the lips is a sin. Once again, though, the purpose is what is important. If the purpose of drinking alcohol is a "buzz" of some sort, I say that the joy of the Holy Spirit in our hearts is much better. I don't have any need for alcohol, myself--don't want any "buzz!"

 

Not to derail the thread, but the NAS translation philosophy was too literal, IMO, so that it is well known for being wooden. Optimal equivalence looks for a good literary style in the target language.

 

Do you like Whisky? Its an acquired taste. I didn't like it when my father made me drink it warm with honey to put me to sleep. But I'm in my 60's now & can afford a belt once and a while like a single malt scotch. Or a beer with a burger...it makes the meat taste better. I got other preferred drinks but remember, I choose to drink & can put it down at any time & not look back. When you find yourself drinking for the wrong reasons then STOP cause it will destroy you & everything you love. And thats why they are so afraid of it. Just beware.

 

Might it cause a weaker brother to stumble?

 

Well there already probably gone then if they crave it that badly. Both my wife & my brother are recovering and before I would have a beer (usually with dinner) I'd ask them. I was always told that its not a problem. Today I don't really drink....just cause I just don't want to. My drink of choice today is seltzer with lime & a splash of OJ.

 

I'm glad you can admit it.