Early Church Dads And Reformers ...

In the presence of sound teaching. We have an advantage that the early church did not enjoy. Many of the doctrines we hold on to have been fully vetted and debated over the centuries. When Christians, or entire churches, go off the rails today they cannot claim ignorance.

 

Oh no.. Luther was 'absolutely' for and held to an Unlimited view of Atonement. He held redemption was of only for the Elect, no question, but the Atonement was for the whole of mankind.

There are threads in the BB on Luther where I show this (I believe it was me and Jarther in the discussion). In fact I believe the name 'Luther' is in the title of one of the threads by Jarther.

 

Rippon.. for the hudredth time! Put the citiation as to where the original quote came from so people can look at the context of the statement. Pulling a few words out of a sentence does not make for an accurate statement of the persons intended view.

As I showed before in this thread an example as listed below [below is a modified listing (to which I added the citations) from Rhodes]:

 

Not true.. though there were a few who 'practiced' the act of infant baptism in the early church fathers (up to around mid third century) baptismal regeneration was not something you could find. Cyprian held to it and few others of his time but again, this is third century). In fact it was't till Augustine that it was stated, by him, the Church at large practices this (and that is at the time of the beginning of what we know as the RCC though not yet fully grown). Around mid third century and in fullness by the fourth century, we have baptismal regenation coming in as a new concept and then into full swing by about 450'ish. According to earlier historical sources it can be noted that infant baptism was a topic of discussion during the times of the early church. I do not argue infant baptism was even practiced by some at this time, and a rare few stated it was due to apostalic tradition. Yet looking at Tertullian, an early church father who is most recognized as a staunch defender of the apostolic traditions, never spoke to nor gave no defense for infant baptism in any form.

Tertullian (ca. 200 A.D.), "On Baptism" in Ante-Nicene Fathers III, 678, argues against infant baptism on grounds of not prematurely receiving forgiveness of sins and then incurring some post-baptismal sins afterward.

Cyprian (ca. 250 A.D.), Letter # 58 (ANF, V, 353), argues that the church ought not delay baptism until the 8th day (after the model of Jewish circumcision) but baptize a newborn immediately.

Note Cyprian was not speaking on behalf of the Church, but was stating his own thoughts and there were at this time some others who held his view.

According to the Didache, which served sort of as an early church manual, gave instructions for baptism and it appears that only adults are baptized:

"Before the baptism, moreover, the one who baptizes and the one being baptized must fast, and any others who can. And you must tell the one being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand." [Didache]

Let us not confuse baptismal regeneration with baptism of an infant (much like circumsision)

 

Good and accurate post.

 

Hi all, first post here. I stumbled upon this thread while doing research on the essay posted here. It is still a draft (and I'm terrible at grammar). It does offer up some long quotes from some ECFs on the topic of Total Inability and Irresistible Grace as well as my personal thoughts on the subject. I understand that section two is quite long and boring. If you want to skip over it (and come back to it later) please do but at least read the Clement of Rome and Lactantius sections.

I take a different angle on this topic. It seems to me that the foundation for either the Reformed or Arminian argument is the unprovable axiom, "My exegesis is correct." My essay does not claim to know the correct exegesis it looks at the historical roots of Total Inability and Irresistible Grace.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12171083/TI and IG.pdf

Thanks for your time!