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Education questions

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by thjplgvp, Jun 26, 2006.

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  1. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    my understanding

    I would say to each of those who have responded that I too appreciate your apparent desire to instruct and lead. My response is always that I can learn and I can change given the proper arguments and support reasons. With that said let me see if (in my finite mind) I can boil down the responses to those things which I can identify and repeat.

    First of all it is very obvious that we come from different backgrounds SBC – IB none-the-less we hold certain goals to be both worthy of pursuit and attainable. Among those goals would be biblical accuracy, doctrinal understanding (pro and con), the presentation of practical Christianity and finally self achievement (have I done all I can) and we would conclude that ministry does include all of these to different degrees though self achievement (from our viewpoint) would be at the bottom list.

    Secondly as to the institutions accreditation I more clearly understand that it is a matter of where you want to take your life, if at the end of ministry you would like to teach then prepare in the early years. If it is toward education now at a higher level then the degrees and the accreditation verify that you have met a minimum standard.

    That is why I have chosen Liberty for my next step the choice is not made for me as much as for the testimony of church where I will ultimately administer Christian Ed. should the Lord allow. :praying:

    The third is where I believe I disagree more but not totally with those who posted. While I am frustrated when a preacher preaches what I believe to be inaccurately he is not accountable to me but Christ and though I understand and agree that we must point out and stand against doctrinal error I prefer to do it by teaching what I consider the right or proper view.

    When a school lowers its standards which ultimately teaches students that its okay to be lazy they hurt themselves in the long run and yes I am aware there are those who are diploma mills (I suspect I have a degree from one). I none-the-less refuse to speak against them in reference to their accreditation for I am persuaded that God is still working in their school and the day may come (should I speak) when I will have to eat my words, and Lord knows I have had to do that so many times I am full.:tongue3:

    I want to thank each of you again I appreciated your responses and truly came away with a helpful view of the other side so to speak.

    Rhetorician, yes I believe some of it is getting through and maybe even making a difference. :laugh:


    thjplgvp

     
    #21 thjplgvp, Jun 27, 2006
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Just some thoughts

    from someone who has been around for awhile.

    Back in the mid-70s, I started looking for a college to attend after I got out of the Service. It was then I began to formulate some thoughts on the topic.

    As to the topic at hand, the founder or even the president of a given school doesn't need to be an academic type himself. He does need to know the kind of character he requires in his faculty and staff. And He needs to be able to impliment such requirements over time.

    Years ago, before the Conservative Resurgance in the SBC grad schools, it was difficult to recruit well qualified (both in their academics and character) men in the more esoteric fields. (Or even some of the not so esoteric fields.)

    Today a church based school, like International Baptist College of Tempe, can recruit teachers of the proper academic stature for its program. Mind you IBC tops out at a D.Min., so we're not talking about a school offering PhDs in Anceint Middle Eastern Languages. But even a few years ago getting the faculty for such a program was problematical. The best most schools could reasonably offer was an MDiv or MA.
     
    #22 Squire Robertsson, Jun 27, 2006
  3. dallas

    dallas New Member

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    RD,

    I agree 100% with what you just stated. I want that for me..and have done that and am continuing to do that... If that is all your intended discussions then I do believe your right. I just believe some of your presupposed suspect of every local church school is troublesome.
     
    #23 dallas, Jun 27, 2006
  4. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Hello Dallas!

    Dallas,

    I am sure there is some good and use for the "church schools." There cannot be any denying that.

    But, that good is so restricted to that same little part of the universe which produced it! IMHO.

    Those "church school" grads can never (hardly ever) rise above the level of the intensity that produced them. For some that is all well and good. But for others, they need to get out into the real world and get a real world education so that they can carry the Gospel to folk of different cultures, languages, societies, religions, ethnic backgrounds, etc. Like usually produces like. Generally the "church schools" tend to end up back in their own "us 4 and no more" little venues ministering to one another.

    Before I get those cards and letters, I know I am talking in some generalities and stereotypes!

    I know that there is room in the Lord's vineyard for all types, shapes, intellects, educational levels, ad infinitum ad nauseum.

    So, may their tribe increase. I am like Broadus however; there is just no reason for someone to make an excuse not to get an accredited degree with all of the on line options out there.

    One observation is sure! The "church school" grads will never be asked to teach at an RA or ATS school. BUT!!! the RA and ATS grads will be sought out to start, teach, administrate, and otherwise oversee the "church schools" in general.

    Cheers!:smilewinkgrin:

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #24 Rhetorician, Jun 27, 2006
  5. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Not to beat a dead horse, but there are church-related institutions which are credible and accredited, whose grads teach elsewhere: Masters College and Seminary (Grace Community Church) and Liberty (Thomas Road). So, it can be done.

    If this has already been noted, my apologies. I forget what has been discussed when a thread goes a few days (or even hours!) :)

    One of my masters, though, came from a church-related school (Hyles-Anderson), which I later saw to be quite inferior in its teaching and requirements.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
    #25 Broadus, Jun 27, 2006
  6. garpier

    garpier New Member

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    As a latecomer to this discussion, I wonder who determines the qualifications for those who accredit the institutions which are seeking accreditation. I also wonder why a pastor who is a student of the Word of God is not "qualified" to teach such weighty matters as have been discussed here if he has not been to one of these accredited institutions.
    My understanding is that it is the New Testament church which is the gaurdian of the words of God. (Matt 28:19-20; Rev. 3:8) How did that responsibility fall to the accredited institution that is not under the authority of the local church which is the pillar and ground of the truth?
    I realize that this is not a scholarly position to take, but I think it is Biblical.
    I feel sorry for the person in the pew who has to listen to a man preach the Word of God if he is not sufficently qualified to teach it in an accredited institution. Maybe that is why it is the foolishness of preaching which God uses to save poor sinners.:rolleyes:
     
    #26 garpier, Jun 28, 2006
  7. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Clarification

    My dear Broadus;

    I am not talking about the "church schools" that have gone on to some level of acumen and acclaim like Liberty and the Master's Schools.

    I am talking about most of the schools who have maybe one scholar, a "one man one plan" IFB pastor, KJO, type. I just wanted everyone to know that there are "church schools" and then there are "church schools!"

    For the record.:thumbs:

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #27 Rhetorician, Jun 28, 2006
  8. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Today a church based school, like International Baptist College of Tempe, can recruit teachers of the proper academic stature for its program. Mind you IBC tops out at a D.Min., so we're not talking about a school offering PhDs in Anceint Middle Eastern Languages. But even a few years ago getting the faculty for such a program was problematical. The best most schools could reasonably offer was an MDiv or MA.[/quote]


    ===

    And so a few reason:

    There are some good church based schools.
    Mine is a church based school.
    Therefore, mine is a good school!


    Hmmm...what's wrong with that logic?
     
    #28 UZThD, Jun 28, 2006
  9. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones New Member

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    Here's another syllogism:

    Only the local church has the authority train church leaders.
    More than one local church is involved with training leaders at a school.
    Therefore, that school does not have the authority to train church leaders.
     
    #29 Brandon C. Jones, Jun 28, 2006
  10. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    or here's another

    To do what is not precribed in the NT is heresy.
    The NT does not prescribe earning degrees.
    Therefore, one who earns a degree is a heretic!



    or here's another

    To do what is not prescribed in the NT is heresy.
    The NT does not prescribe using a computer to learn or to fellowship.
    Therefore, one who uses the computer as on BB for these things is a heretic!



    0r here's another

    To do what is not precribed in the NT is heresy.
    The NT does not prescribe going to college or seminary
    Therefore, any who go are heretics.



    My. my, just look at all who are condemned if we follow the same logic as do any who might argue that because in the NT only the local church educated, THEREFORE, also today only the local church can educate!




    Hmmm...just look at the all the potential for denouncing modern practices
     
    #30 UZThD, Jun 28, 2006
  11. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Please show me the Scripture(s) where it says that "only" the church can train leaders? What about parachurch ministries? What about missionaries in foreign countries who train men to become pastors? Are they all unBiblical as well? I am not aware of any verse of Scripture that says "only" the church can train leaders. Certainly the local church is primary, and certainly it is very important for the future (and current) leader(s). However it is certainly not the only training tool.
     
    #31 Martin, Jun 28, 2006
  12. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones New Member

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    I was presenting what is, IMO, the logic of others on this board...I don't agree with the syllogism above.
     
    #32 Brandon C. Jones, Jun 28, 2006
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