Featured Eph. 2:8-9 parallel with Titus 3:5 on good works

God loved us (that is a general us). God does not even know you unless you obey Him.


1 Corinthians 8:3 But the man who loves God is known by God.

Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God--or rather are known by God--how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

Do you not understand that?

YOU are NOT even KNOWN by God unless YOU love God, and we who obey God are the ones who love Him. That is what the scriptures say.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands.

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

God knew and love me even while I was yet in my mothers womb!

he chose to save me in jesus, and showed His love by having His Son die in my place on Cross...

Love like that is ONLY of God, He loves me regardless of my behaviour!


he wants me to obey Him, and gave me his Spriti to empower me, but thank God even when I fail or fall he still loves the same!

 

Where does it say that in the Bible?
The Bible teaches:
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1. There are not good works involved in calling on the name of the Lord.
2. There is no act of being sorry for one's sins in "calling on the name of the Lord."

To say that one must do good works, and be sorry for their sins in order to be saved is just as good as saying that the blood of Christ was not sufficient enough to pay for the penalty of our sins.
It is to say that you had to help Jesus pay for our sins by doing good. Your good helped pay the penalty of our sins. That is a blasphemous theology Moriah.
Salvation is by faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, not of any kind of works--good works, works of the law, works of Mother Theresa, works of Moriah, not any kind or, or any person's works, not any works whatsoever. Salvation is not of works.

Salvation is by grace through faith.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God. (Rom.5:1)

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

Please quote the scripture exactly.
In addition, are you claiming to be a prophet?

He chose us in Christ TO BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS.

You make up things that God does not say. Where does the word of God say God loves you regardless of your behavior? You not only say things that God does not say, you null what He does say! Jesus says if we love him we will remain in his love.

If you want to remain in God and Jesus’ love, then you have to obey his teachings. If you stumble, then you can be sorry for your sins and be forgiven. God’s patients mean salvation. Stop sinning and obey God.

 

Just remember that the Lord always loves perfectly those whom he saved, and that while my behaviour should reflect the lord in me and thru me, still will sin at times, as cannot attain sinless perfection state while in this flesh!

 

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
John 7:23 Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in all the ways I command you, that it may go well with you.

Here is a scripture that shows you baptizing and washing away your sins come before calling on his name.
Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away,calling on his name.’
Paul teaches to turn to God IN REPENTANCE.
Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

I just gave you scripture that proves you teach falseness.

Again, you just automatically repeat what your teachers have engrained for you to say. Where have I ever said we had to help Jesus pay for our sins by doing good or anything?
You should be careful how you debate others. To give the impression that I said something blasphemous when I have not is deceitful and evil.

 

You take all these Scriptures out of context Moriah. And I can show you how.
You don't obey the commands of Jesus yourself. That makes you a hypocrite! You tell others that they must obey the commands of Jesus but you won't even obey them. Don't you think that is hypocritical? "Do what I say; not as I do," philosophy?

The rich young ruler came to Jesus, asking, "What must I do to have eternal life?" Okay, not Jesus is going to tell him how to have, how to obtain eternal life, so listen carefully. Here is the command you must follow:

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

That is what you must do to have eternal life, Moriah.
Have you sold all that you have?
Have you given it to the poor?
Have you taken up your cross (an instrument of execution or death)?
Have you followed Jesus (wherever he has told you to go)?

Have you?
For what price did you receive when you sold all your goods? What was the value?
What charitable organization did you give all the proceeds? How did you give it all away?
In what manner have you taken up your cross and followed Jesus?

I await your testimony.
He that forsakes not all that he has cannot be my disciple.
Have you obeyed all the commands of Jesus, Moriah, or are you simply a hypocrite?

 

You can never show that.

Jesus did not call Christians hypocrites, only the Pharisees and teachers of the law. You are an accuser of the brethren. I say the Bible says to obey Jesus, and you call me names, and this is debating the truth to you. What evilness to accuse me of not obeying Jesus.

You do not understand those scriptures. You try to nullify God’s word by bringing up sins you think I have committed. Jesus says to obey him, he tells us not to sin, but DHK goes against that truth because of sins I may do.

Jesus was speaking to a rich man. I am not rich. Jesus knew that man would not give up his riches to follow him. Jesus knows there is nothing more important to me than Him. Jesus was on earth, in front of the rich man, and the rich man did not give up everything to be with God. You, DHK, have no understanding.

I have eternal life. You do not know the Truth.

You try to nullify God’s Word by your lack of understanding. You do not even see how flawed your beliefs are. You argue falsely that I should give everything for the poor in order to have eternal life, yet you do not even believe that yourself.

You have proven that Jesus has not revealed himself to you. If you knew Jesus, than you would know that Jesus says to obey his teaching, and this would not offend you to hear anyone say it. You would not attack people when they say, “Jesus says for us to obey.”
You have proven that you do not know Jesus when you do not understand that not everyone is rich. Jesus knew the rich man would not give up all for Jesus that he would walk away from God on earth, who was standing in the flesh right in front of him.
If you knew Jesus, then you would know that there are scriptures telling those who are wealthy in this world to share their material possessions. If you knew Jesus, than you would know that the word of God says parents are to save for their children. With your unreasonable false doctrine, no saved parents would have anything to give to their children, and there would be no person with material possessions to share! Again, you have no understanding.

 

Yes, I can. You use verses like John 14:15,21,23, etc. for obedience required for salvation, when reality these verses tell of Jesus speaking to His disciples in the upper room. His disciples didn't need to be saved at that time for they were saved already. The verses don't speak of salvation. You take scripture out of context.

Jesus called many people hypocrites, including believers.

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
--This is part of the sermon on the mount, delivered to his disciples and directed to Christians.
By accusing me in the way that you just did, you broke the BB rules, falsely accused me, called me Satan, and should earn an infraction for doing so. Stop calling people Satan!! (an accuser of the brethren)

What I said is true. You are a hypocrite. You tell others to keep the commands of Jesus that you yourself cannot keep. Isn't that true? I gave you an example, and you came up with the lame excuse that you weren't rich. That is lame, really lame. You don't have to be rich. Just go and sell all that you have, give to the poor, and go and follow Jesus. Keep his command, not make excuses for not keeping his commands!

Apparently you don't understand the Scripture. The story I brought up was the story of the rich young ruler as recorded in Mark 10. I said nothing about your sins whatsoever at this point. I simply said he came to Jesus asking What must I do to have eternal life. That is what he said. There is nothing personal in that against you.

1. You are rich compared to 90% of the world's population, especially all the 3rd world nations. You probably don't know what real poverty is, and have never even come close to starvation. Compared to the great majority of India, many countries in Africa, you are exorbitantly wealthy. You have your own computer, even your own blog and enough to support it, and much much more.
2. Does Jesus also know that you won't give up all that you have?
3. Who in the Bible did Jesus expect any less?

Matthew 4:19: Jesus said unto them, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men."
And immediately the left their fishing nets and followed Jesus. That was Peter and Andrew. They left their fishing occupations, family, everything, and went and followed Jesus. They were fishermen.

Matthew 4:21-22 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them. And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
--Then James and John left their occupation of fishing. They left everything with their father, and their father in the ship, and followed Jesus.

Matthew 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
--Matthew, a tax-collector, immediately followed Jesus, leaving all of his money on the table.

Luke 21:2-4 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
--Here is a poor widow, someone that really did live in poverty. She gave all that she had. She gave it all. Have you done that?

What are the commands of Christ:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

These are only some of the commands of Christ. Only the last one is addressed to an unsaved person. Have you obeyed the rest of them? Have you forsaken all and followed Christ?

You don't practice what you preach. You tell people that they can't have eternal life unless they obey the commands of Jesus. But you don't keep the words of Jesus. I have given an entire list of the words/commands of Jesus, and you haven't kept them, have you? Why should people believe you if you are a hypocrite and don't keep the commands of Christ yourself??

I do believe these commands Moriah. I sincerely believe them. The difference between your beliefs and mine is this:
You believe such commands of obedience are necessary for salvation.
I believe such commands of obedience are necessary for discipleship.
You believe that "obedience" is necessary for salvation.
I believe that obedience is a result of salvation.

I can honestly say that I have obeyed these commands, for I have forsaken all that I have, even sold everything, and have followed Jesus, going to another land, leaving everything behind. I have obeyed him. That is what discipleship is all about. It is what the Great Commission is all about. It is the heart of missions.

Jesus never says to an unsaved person to obey him such as you quote in John 14:21. Those commands are given only to Christians.

Even the widow gave all that she had though she lived in poverty. Anyone can give. In fact, anyone can give all that they have. One does not have to be rich to give.

That is a perversion of Scriptures. Jesus never taught for only the wealthy to give.

This is a terrible conclusion from you, and everyone can see how many times you have called me unsaved. That is not a good answer. Anyone can give, anyone. Even a child can give something. Your answer is childish.

 

I do not take scriptures out of context.
The people whom you say were already saved, Jesus said they would receive his Spirit if they get his teachings and obey. How do you think what you say changes anything I said? It does not change anything I said.

No, Jesus did not call “many” people hypocrites.

I did what Jesus said, I got the plank out of my eye first.

You accused me of not obeying Jesus. Stop accusing me of sins I did not do. Do you not understand that? Give yourself an infraction for accusing me of not obeying Jesus, and give yourself many infractions for calling me a hypocrite ad nauseum. What is so hard to understand about no false accusations and personal attacks?

You are an accuser is not saying you are Satan, do you really think you can now accuse me of calling you Satan himself?
You should know though that there are people who are caught in the devils snare to do his work. You accuse me of things that I do not do. If that is not an accuser, than what is?

I hope all reading this will report you to the administration. Stop saying I do not keep Jesus’ commands.
Jesus did not give me commands I cannot keep. Jesus said his commands are not burdensome. You teach the opposite of what Jesus says!
If you really think that Jesus was teaching all Christians to live homeless and have nothing, then you really have no understanding.


You attack me for saying what Jesus says.

Jesus saved me because he knew I put nothing before him. Jesus revealed himself to me because I got his teachings and obeyed them.

I will repeat it again to you, since you have a hard time understanding. I am not the rich man Jesus was speaking about in the scriptures.

See how you twist the truth. Jesus knows I put him first before anyone and anything.

You want us all to believe that Jesus requires us all not to have anything, then why have you not obeyed. You are the hypocrite with a computer and electricity, or is the library's computer available to you at all hours of the night. You do not even believe what you preach. If that is not a hypocrite, than what is? I tell you what the word of God says; however, you speak what you believe the word says, and then do not do it.

Again, you prove you have no understanding. Jesus was picking the apostles. Do you think I am an apostle?

I can hear Chubby Checker singing now.

I should have known there was false pride behind your rants to me. You do not understand the scriptures. You built yourself up and you try to put me down. I am concerned about all the people who you taught false doctrines too. Did you have the people you taught give up their millions and their homes? Did you give up millions of dollars and a mansion for the Lord? Somehow, I doubt that you gave up riches. How is it that you have a computer? Are you borrowing the library's computer, or a friend's computer that you have not talked into giving it up yet? Do you think Jesus said for you to give up everything thing you have, but you can get it back later? Where does not scriptures say that?
Tell us, what do you think of this scripture,

Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

That does not make a bit of sense what you said. Jesus tells the disciples if they get his teachings and obey them, they will receive the Holy Spirit. Yet you think it makes a difference that they were his disciples? It makes no difference. If a person does not get Jesus’ teachings and obey them, then they will not have the Holy Spirit. That goes only for Christians you say. Therefore, Christians will not get the Holy Spirit if they do not obey, according to your logic. Now how does that make any sense?

That is a perversion of what I said.

Jesus says if you want to remain in my love, obey his teachings.

Jesus says if you want to remain in his love, obey his teachings.

Jesus says if you want to remain in his love, obey his teachings.

 

How do you address the points posted on # 45 though?

 

Scripture is taken out of context. Anyone saved today is given the Holy Spirit at the moment they are saved, not when they start obeying. If obedience is involved then it is a religion of works and that is heresy.

1. Your first post said: "Jesus never called any Christians hypocrites."
2 I pointed out your wrong. Now you say: "Jesus did not call "many" people hypocrites." I am glad to see you repented of your error. In fact he did call many people hypocrites. Read Mat.23. He called many Pharisees hypocrites and some Christians hypocrites.

You have not obeyed all the commands of Jesus.
The command of Jesus given to the saved and all disciples of Jesus is:

He that forsakes not all that he has cannot be my disciple.
--That command was not given to a rich man. It is given to you and everyone else. Have you obeyed it? If so, when and how?

Consider this Scripture:
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
--The "accuser of our brethren" is another name for Satan, which you very well know. Every time you use that name against me you are calling me Satan. From henceforth, you will receive an infraction every time you refer to me or any one else on this board as Satan (accuser of the brethren), or any of his other names. Got it?

Jesus said to all his disciples, and to you to:
He that forsakes not all that he has cannot be my disciple.
Have you done that? When and where?
Why do you say to others they have to obey Jesus commands to be saved, when you don't keep Jesus commands yourself? That is being hypocritical. And, it has nothing to do with being rich.

But have you forsaken all?

I am not quoting that verse to you. I quoted about a dozed verses to you, and you pick that one? What about the one where Jesus says to forsake all that you have and follow him? Have you done that?

I am not twisting anything. Read it for yourself:
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
--Have you obeyed?

Do you have a house, a car, material possessions? If the bank were to ask you, "What is your net worth?" what would you answer them? (don't answer here). IOW, your net worth, however low it may be compared to others in the place that you live is still much higher than those who live in 3rd world nations all over this world. You are much better off than the 15 year old orphan girl that I saw scavenging in the garbage dumpster in search for some morsel of food to feed her starving stomach. You are much better off than the children kept in slavery in India making carpets for pennies a day, that many Americans buy to decorate their living rooms.

The words "he cannot be my disciple," refers to more than just his apostles. It refers to all who will follow him. There were 120 in the upper room at Pentecost. It referred to all of them, disciples. It refers to every person who would follow Jesus, to those who would desire to wear the name "Christian."

Who is he? Are you chubby?

It is sad to see that when a brother gives his testimony that it is received with mockery. I feel sorry for you. I testified to you how I obeyed the Lord, and you mock. That truly is a shame.

That is only because the Holy Spirit had not yet come. He told them it would come later--at the Day of Pentecost. Why do you let that teaching confuse you?

Since the Day of Pentecost every believer receives the Holy Spirit the moment the receive Christ--no works, no obedience required.
--Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
It does not say: "being justified by faith and works..." But that is what you believe--a perversion of Scriptures.

Because justification comes by faith and faith alone (Rom.5:1)
There are no works involved. The minute a person trusts Christ he is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

No it isn't. You said the command was given to the rich young ruler, so you were unable to give like him. But the truth is every person can give like him. You can give all that you have. There is nothing stopping you.

He did not say you would lose your salvation. That is your perversion.

Again, your misunderstanding of Scripture. The disciples did not lose their salvation, even when Peter did not remain in the love of Christ, but denied him three times. He still had eternal life. One does not lose their salvation.

You cannot gain salvation by works. The Bible never teaches that. A man searches for Christ as a robber seeks after a police man.

 

You take scripture out of context, not I as you falsely claim.
You say if obedience is involved then it is a religion of works and is heresy. You speak of a twisted belief. The Word of God teaches faith without action is dead; YOU teach it is the saving kind of faith. The Word of God teaches sin is wrong and to do good is right. YOU teach to do right while being saved is heresy. That is so against God and a serious error.

I have not needed to repent for what I said about hypocrites. YOU need to repent for falsely calling me one.
I did NOT have a plank in my eye when I tell someone we must obey Jesus to know him.

I corrected you about Jesus not calling many people hypocrites.

The New Testament says the word hypocrite 17 times, and EVERYTIME Jesus uses that word, it is to teach us NOT TO BE LIKE THE PHARISEES AND THE TEACHERS OF THE LAW.

Stop coming on this debate to judge me, you do not even know me.

If you had not kept on accusing me of falseness, you would not have been called an accuser. Accuse, accused, accuses, those are verbs. Accuser is a noun. I have not ever called you Satan himself. If you do not like being called an accuser, than stop falsely accusing people.

If it is not given you to understand, then it is not given you to understand.

It is more than a shame when you teach others your misunderstanding of the scriptures. Tell us why you did not keep obeying Jesus according to your understanding and stay in that foreign land without money, home, or possessions?

Jesus said if anyone loves him they will get his teachings and obey them, then Jesus will give to that person the Holy Spirit. If a person does not get Jesus’ teaching and obey them, then Jesus will not give that person the Holy Spirit.

The word of God says faith without action is dead. Faith without action is never the life saving kind of faith, as you teach.

Jesus is the Savior. God gives His Spirit to those He chooses. God does NOT EVEN KNOW YOU IF YOU DO NOT OBEY HIM. That is what the Word of God says. Tell us how God knew you to save you when you say you did not have to obey?

Man’s wisdom is rubbish and you keep repeating it.
The Bible says the Lord’s patience MEANS SALVATION. Study 2 Peter 3:15 what that means, study that carefully. Think of WHY Jesus is being patient with those he has saved, think of WHAT the thing is that Jesus is being patient, and HOW this MEANS SALVATION. Think carefully…for you to know means salvation. I will help you out with this study on 2 Peter 3:15…Jesus is being patient with you to obey him. Are you going to stop teaching falseness now?

 

You did nothing here but personally attack me, is the moderator going to let you get away with it?

 

No, because he is right. In post #52 I pointed out your errors. I used Scripture as well. In post #53 you answered, as Biblicist said, an answer filled with accusations. You, you, you, you. A post which deserves an infraction. You are not interested in debate. You don't seem to know how to debate. Instead of giving an honest answer you give an accusation instead and everyone on this board can see that, as Biblicist pointed out. When you are ready to debate, take post #52 and answer it again, this time more politely, dignified, and civilized. Act like a Christian should act.

 

God knows and sees what you are doing.

 

Yes he does. He sees that I am trying to get an honest answer for someone who is playing the part of a hypocrite on this board.

In order to be saved (you say) obey the commands of Jesus.

Here is the command of Jesus:
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Have you obeyed it? If so, when and where?

 

I sure did forsake all for Jesus. Now stop accusing.