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Ergun Caner controversy
- Thread starter Dale-c
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On the subject of Liberty and Caner -- a young lady from my church here graduated from Liberty a few years ago as have several others in attendance the last couple years.
I will call her Margie (not her real name).
Margie was saved a little more than a month ago. She was baptized here afterwards. Her testimony was wonderfully moving.
Just a few months back she did not not like to hear the word sin. She really would get upset for anyone to refer to themselves or her as a sinner.
I asked her if she remembered hearing the Gospel at Liberty or Thomas Road Baptist Church. She said she heard a lot about politics and amusing stories but no Gospel.
A number of you have been/are Liberty students. You may entiurely disagree with her on that score. But I found it to be very sad and quite ironic.
About two weeks after her baptism I asked her if she knew anything about the Caner story. She was shocked and said I was sorely mistaken. But the following Sunday she said she had become curious and investigated the matter. She said she was dumbfounded. But Margie remembered that Ergun Caner's stories seemed a bit contrived. Now the puzzle has been put together.
As was said earlier -- Tick tock, tick tock.
I will call her Margie (not her real name).
Margie was saved a little more than a month ago. She was baptized here afterwards. Her testimony was wonderfully moving.
Just a few months back she did not not like to hear the word sin. She really would get upset for anyone to refer to themselves or her as a sinner.
I asked her if she remembered hearing the Gospel at Liberty or Thomas Road Baptist Church. She said she heard a lot about politics and amusing stories but no Gospel.
A number of you have been/are Liberty students. You may entiurely disagree with her on that score. But I found it to be very sad and quite ironic.
About two weeks after her baptism I asked her if she knew anything about the Caner story. She was shocked and said I was sorely mistaken. But the following Sunday she said she had become curious and investigated the matter. She said she was dumbfounded. But Margie remembered that Ergun Caner's stories seemed a bit contrived. Now the puzzle has been put together.
As was said earlier -- Tick tock, tick tock.
On the subject of Liberty and Caner -- a young lady from my church here graduated from Liberty a few years ago as have several others in attendance the last couple years.
I will call her Margie (not her real name).
Margie was saved a little more than a month ago. She was baptized here afterwards. Her testimony was wonderfully moving.
Just a few months back she did not not like to hear the word sin. She really would get upset for anyone to refer to themselves or her as a sinner.
I asked her if she remembered hearing the Gospel at Liberty or Thomas Road Baptist Church. She said she heard a lot about politics and amusing stories but no Gospel.
A number of you have been/are Liberty students. You may entiurely disagree with her on that score. But I found it to be very sad and quite ironic.
About two weeks after her baptism I asked her if she knew anything about the Caner story. She was shocked and said I was sorely mistaken. But the following Sunday she said she had become curious and investigated the matter. She said she was dumbfounded. But Margie remembered that Ergun Caner's stories seemed a bit contrived. Now the puzzle has been put together.
As was said earlier -- Tick tock, tick tock.
Having gone to Liberty off and on for over 14 years, I have a seriously hard time thinking she went to Liberty and never heard the Gospel. To me, it probably says more about her listening skills than about the school. All freshmen, for instance, are required to take Evangelism where they will hear the Gospel a dozen times (this is not an exaggeration). I personally know the professors who teach this class and they are very bold in proclaiming the Gospel. There is also Spiritual Emphasis Week, ScareMare, GNED, and other events/courses where the Gospel is entrenched (if she went to Liberty and didn't go to ScareMare, she may be only the 1% who did not).
Now, if she attended courses only online then I could understand. However, even there I hear the Gospel is mentioned in many of those classes.
There are many areas I disagree with Liberty, but this maybe the first time I heard someone say they never heard the Gospel. In fact, in the recent book where the atheistic kid went to Liberty and wrote about his experience, he kept remarking about the saturation of hearing the Gospel.
Just my thoughts.
I asked her if she remembered hearing the Gospel at Liberty or Thomas Road Baptist Church. She said she heard a lot about politics and amusing stories but no Gospel.
Nothing against you Rippon, but I have a hard time believing that. Having been to Thomas Road Baptist Church, before Jerry Falwell passed, and having graduated from Liberty University (Liberty Seminary, online), I know she heard the Gospel. Maybe she does not remember hearing it because she was not listening at the time. Or maybe she, in her lost condition, simply ignored it. I don't know. But I know if she attended Liberty University and Thomas Road Baptist Church she heard the Gospel.
But Margie remembered that Ergun Caner's stories seemed a bit contrived. Now the puzzle has been put together.
Having graduated from seminary, and having heard Dr. Caner speak (in person and on dvd) I can honestly say that before this investigation I never once thought Dr. Caner's "stories seemed a bit contrived". So I have a hard to accepting the idea that this person, who by her own admission was lost and did not remember hearing the Gospel at LU/TRBC, thought Dr. Caner's accounts "seemed a bit contrived" at the time. Maybe she thinks that now, but I really must doubt she thought that then (at least not for the same reasons).
Let's not trash Liberty University. It is a great university that has been used by the Lord to bring thousands of people into the ministry. One bad apple does not spoil the whole basket. Every university has the bad professor/dean. If Liberty does not take action against Dr. Caner I will be deeply disappointed in the university's leadership. However that will in no way affect my opinion of the University as a whole since it has many, many great professors, staff, and students. I will continue to recommend Liberty University to everyone who asks me. We should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Hey guys, take it easy on Rippon. I think maybe he was trying to give us an example of what Caner would say to make a point.
I too know several who have attended LU and I remember one saying "You just think you know the Gospel till you start taking classes."
Rippon does not have to convince (if he could) anyone in the BB what Caner has done or said.
I am content to wait for LU to make their own decision and then I will make mine on the kind of support (if any) I would give LU.
It is like we have folks here telling the neighbor down the street what they should fix for dinner day in and day out and then insisting that they do it.
I too know several who have attended LU and I remember one saying "You just think you know the Gospel till you start taking classes."
Rippon does not have to convince (if he could) anyone in the BB what Caner has done or said.
I am content to wait for LU to make their own decision and then I will make mine on the kind of support (if any) I would give LU.
It is like we have folks here telling the neighbor down the street what they should fix for dinner day in and day out and then insisting that they do it.
It is a great university that has been used by the Lord to bring thousands of people into the ministry. One bad apple does not spoil the whole basket. Every university has the bad professor/dean. If Liberty does not take action against Dr. Caner I will be deeply disappointed in the university's leadership. However that will in no way affect my opinion of the University as a whole since it has many, many great professors, staff, and students. I will continue to recommend Liberty University to everyone who asks me. We should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I love LU, too! I am praying that LU does the right thing. Even the secular world knows that when trust has been broken through misrepresentations, the offender must step down. LU, under Falwell, often referred to wanting to play Notre Dame. When their head coach lied on his resume, he was gone in just a few days.
Please, LU, do the right thing. Trust has been broken. Restore it.
Hey guys, take it easy on Rippon. I think maybe he was trying to give us an example of what Caner would say to make a point.
I too know several who have attended LU and I remember one saying "You just think you know the Gospel till you start taking classes."
Rippon does not have to convince (if he could) anyone in the BB what Caner has done or said.
I am content to wait for LU to make their own decision and then I will make mine on the kind of support (if any) I would give LU.
It is like we have folks here telling the neighbor down the street what they should fix for dinner day in and day out and then insisting that they do it.
Sometimes things are just a little easier to see than what the neighbors down the street should have for dinner. When the whole world can see the facts for themselves, calling for "right" action is a prophetic (if not pastoral) action.
Stakeholders have the right to hold the corporation accountable. Even more so in Christianity.
From Ergun Caner's web page found here:
http://www.erguncaner.com/home/faq/default.php#2
2. Why are you not darker, and why is is your accent not more pronounced? top
These are two of my favorite questions. Like I said, I am Turkish- and to many Muslims, that makes me a half-breed. Turks are Persians (neighboring Iraq to the southeast) and European. We darken in the summer, and lighten in the winter. Add this to the fact that we have a horrible human rights record (fighting Greeks, Kurds, Cossacks, Cypriotes, Iraqis, Americans, etc.) and you can see why we are hated by many! As for my accent, speak to my wife and those who have me speak at evening events. I work very hard to speak understandably, and with clear diction. The problem is, English is neither my first nor my second language. Sometimes it is really a struggle.
I am sure it was a struggle. Here is Ergun explaining at a conference that he learned English as an adult:
Last year speaking at a conference in Gatlinburg, TN he said this:
“Let me be very clear. They are not undocumented aliens. They are illegal criminals. I came into this country legally. I stood in the line. And so I say to all the immigrants who come in – I get a lot of immigrant who are, who are uh, students in the seminary, I go “God bless you.” I just want to tell you three things: pay ya taxes, learn English, and shut up and quit whining – because – everytime you come here – everytime you come to this country and you say [mocking a foreign accent] “Um, we like America we want to come to this country, let us speak our language” – you are ruining it for the rest of us! I had to stay out of school for one year, to learn English. I got held back a year, because my English was so poor. I could learn it, and I’m an adult, anybody can learn it.”
I have a question for Ergun.
Why do you lie so much?
At the very least, you spoke English from three on. You probably learned English in Sweden where just about everyone speaks it.
Why did you speak with a phony accent at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, only to have it wear off during the sermon?
Why are you such a fake?
Better look at his home page fast. It probably won't be up long.
http://www.erguncaner.com/home/faq/default.php#2
2. Why are you not darker, and why is is your accent not more pronounced? top
These are two of my favorite questions. Like I said, I am Turkish- and to many Muslims, that makes me a half-breed. Turks are Persians (neighboring Iraq to the southeast) and European. We darken in the summer, and lighten in the winter. Add this to the fact that we have a horrible human rights record (fighting Greeks, Kurds, Cossacks, Cypriotes, Iraqis, Americans, etc.) and you can see why we are hated by many! As for my accent, speak to my wife and those who have me speak at evening events. I work very hard to speak understandably, and with clear diction. The problem is, English is neither my first nor my second language. Sometimes it is really a struggle.
I am sure it was a struggle. Here is Ergun explaining at a conference that he learned English as an adult:
Last year speaking at a conference in Gatlinburg, TN he said this:
“Let me be very clear. They are not undocumented aliens. They are illegal criminals. I came into this country legally. I stood in the line. And so I say to all the immigrants who come in – I get a lot of immigrant who are, who are uh, students in the seminary, I go “God bless you.” I just want to tell you three things: pay ya taxes, learn English, and shut up and quit whining – because – everytime you come here – everytime you come to this country and you say [mocking a foreign accent] “Um, we like America we want to come to this country, let us speak our language” – you are ruining it for the rest of us! I had to stay out of school for one year, to learn English. I got held back a year, because my English was so poor. I could learn it, and I’m an adult, anybody can learn it.”
I have a question for Ergun.
Why do you lie so much?
At the very least, you spoke English from three on. You probably learned English in Sweden where just about everyone speaks it.
Why did you speak with a phony accent at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, only to have it wear off during the sermon?
Why are you such a fake?
Better look at his home page fast. It probably won't be up long.
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On the same web page he states that he was disowned by his family!!!
Funny. He lived with his mom and brothers. Only his non-custodial dad disowned him. Also, name one mosque that his father built.
1.What is your background? top I am Turkish, and an immigrant. I came to this country as the oldest son of an Islamic leader, who came here to build Mosques. I became a Christian in the early 80's, and was of course disowned by my family. I am a Persian, many generations back.
Funny. He lived with his mom and brothers. Only his non-custodial dad disowned him. Also, name one mosque that his father built.
1.What is your background? top I am Turkish, and an immigrant. I came to this country as the oldest son of an Islamic leader, who came here to build Mosques. I became a Christian in the early 80's, and was of course disowned by my family. I am a Persian, many generations back.
Does anyone want to check this out? What could he possibly know about doing business in Persian or Arabic countries? What are the dates for having spoken at corporate events?
13. At what types of events do you speak? top Every kind under the sun. I speak to corporate events concerning doing business in Persian and Arabic countries. I speak at media gatherings concerning reporting on the present conflicts. I also speak at various conventions and denominations, and have addressed professional sports teams in their pre-game chapels. Since 1989, I have also spoken at countless youth events and world apologetics conferences. All told, I have spoken in over 40 denominations, in fifteen countries, 43 states, 124 national and state meetings and to somewhere around 750,000 people.
13. At what types of events do you speak? top Every kind under the sun. I speak to corporate events concerning doing business in Persian and Arabic countries. I speak at media gatherings concerning reporting on the present conflicts. I also speak at various conventions and denominations, and have addressed professional sports teams in their pre-game chapels. Since 1989, I have also spoken at countless youth events and world apologetics conferences. All told, I have spoken in over 40 denominations, in fifteen countries, 43 states, 124 national and state meetings and to somewhere around 750,000 people.
From his homepage:
Why are you not darker, and why is is your accent not more pronounced?
How do we pronounce your name?
Why are you on so many television shows?
What is your "Ministry" name?
Did you catch the lie? His middle name is not Mehmet.
He is still lying, even today, about who he is, and the nature of his background and experience.
This is pathological. It is chronic. And it doesn't appear that it will end anytime soon.
DR. ERGUN MEHMET CANER
What is your background?Why are you not darker, and why is is your accent not more pronounced?
How do we pronounce your name?
Why are you on so many television shows?
What is your "Ministry" name?
Did you catch the lie? His middle name is not Mehmet.
He is still lying, even today, about who he is, and the nature of his background and experience.
This is pathological. It is chronic. And it doesn't appear that it will end anytime soon.
The issue of Ergun Caner's real (or complete) name is confusing. Terretinfan offers some interesting evidence. See the link below for more:
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/05/ergun-caners-middle-name-is-what.html
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/05/ergun-caners-middle-name-is-what.html
Nothing against you Rippon, but I have a hard time believing that. Having been to Thomas Road Baptist Church, before Jerry Falwell passed, and having graduated from Liberty University (Liberty Seminary, online), I know she heard the Gospel. Maybe she does not remember hearing it because she was not listening at the time. Or maybe she, in her lost condition, simply ignored it. I don't know. But I know if she attended Liberty University and Thomas Road Baptist Church she heard the Gospel.
I am just relaying what she told me. Unlike Caner I'm not lying.
Having graduated from seminary, and having heard Dr. Caner speak (in person and on dvd) I can honestly say that before this investigation I never once thought Dr. Caner's "stories seemed a bit contrived".
Perhaps there are others out there who also thought that his stories didn't add up before his lies became public knowledge.
So I have a hard to accepting the idea that this person, who by her own admission was lost and did not remember hearing the Gospel at LU/TRBC, thought Dr. Caner's accounts "seemed a bit contrived" at the time.
Okay, you have difficulty with it. But your difficulty has no bearing on her statement on the matter.
Maybe she thinks that now, but I really must doubt she thought that then (at least not for the same reasons).
I wish more people had legitimate doubts about Caner's veracity than Margie's word.
Let's not trash Liberty University.
Who is trashing LU?
It is a great university that has been used by the Lord to bring thousands of people into the ministry. One bad apple does not spoil the whole basket.
One in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Every university has the bad professor/dean.
Hopefully not! You meant that a number of universities have and shall have an occasional bad professor or dean.
How many have lying braggards as presidents?
If Liberty does not take action against Dr. Caner I will be deeply disappointed in the university's leadership.
Brace yourself for a big let down.
However that will in no way affect my opinion of the University as a whole since it has many, many great professors, staff, and students. I will continue to recommend Liberty University to everyone who asks me. We should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
What if the baby remains dirty?
How can a Baptist seminary that prides itself on being a fundamental/evangelical Bible-believing, Bible practicing citadel of the faith keep a chronic, pathological, intentionally deceptive fraud as president?
It boggles the mind. As an alumnus, I will be extremely embarrassed and disappointed. If Elmer Towns' view becomes the position of LU after the investigation is completed, then black is white, right is wrong, the ends justifies the means, morality is whatever you want it to mean, and the TEN commandments are meaningless.
It boggles the mind. As an alumnus, I will be extremely embarrassed and disappointed. If Elmer Towns' view becomes the position of LU after the investigation is completed, then black is white, right is wrong, the ends justifies the means, morality is whatever you want it to mean, and the TEN commandments are meaningless.
I am just relaying what she told me. Unlike Caner I'm not lying.
As I said, "Nothing against you Rippon". I am not saying anyone is lying, just that the young lady must have missed something. Having experienced Liberty University and Thomas Road Baptist Church firsthand I have a very, very hard time believing she never heard the Gospel while she was there. I can believe that she never listened to it, that she never paid attention to it, but I can't believe she never heard it.
Hopefully not! You meant that a number of universities have and shall have an occasional bad professor or dean.
How many have lying braggards as presidents?
Every University has professors (etc) that have no business being there. Dr. Caner is nothing new in that respect. What is new is that he is the President of a major Baptist Theological Seminary. His behavior needs to be dealt with.
Brace yourself for a big let down.
I'm suspect that, on this issue, there is a good chance that I'm going to be deeply disappointed in the university's leadership. I suspect that when everything washes out, Liberty University's leadership will say that either (a) it was a misunderstanding on the part of the listeners, (b) what Dr. Caner said was not true but he did not mean to mislead anyone, or (c) he will be officially reprimanded. I seriously doubt he will be fired, at least not right now. There may come a point in the near future when he will "decide" it is time to "move on" to a new ministry. Only time will tell. I do believe he will not be at Liberty University much longer. However I don't expect him to be fired over this or forced out right now. I suspect it will be much more low key and later on.
What if the baby remains dirty?
The baby, in this case Liberty University, is not dirty. This is an issue with one committee and one professor/president within the larger university family. As I have said, there are many, many fine faculty, staff, and students at Liberty University. Their presence far out weighs Dr. Caner's sin. The University should not be smeared because of Dr. Caner.
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From Ergun Caner's web page found here:
http://www.erguncaner.com/home/faq/default.php#2
2. Why are you not darker, and why is is your accent not more pronounced? top
These are two of my favorite questions. Like I said, I am Turkish- and to many Muslims, that makes me a half-breed. Turks are Persians (neighboring Iraq to the southeast) and European. We darken in the summer, and lighten in the winter. Add this to the fact that we have a horrible human rights record (fighting Greeks, Kurds, Cossacks, Cypriotes, Iraqis, Americans, etc.) and you can see why we are hated by many! As for my accent, speak to my wife and those who have me speak at evening events. I work very hard to speak understandably, and with clear diction. The problem is, English is neither my first nor my second language. Sometimes it is really a struggle.
I am sure it was a struggle. Here is Ergun explaining at a conference that he learned English as an adult:
Last year speaking at a conference in Gatlinburg, TN he said this:
“Let me be very clear. They are not undocumented aliens. They are illegal criminals. I came into this country legally. I stood in the line. And so I say to all the immigrants who come in – I get a lot of immigrant who are, who are uh, students in the seminary, I go “God bless you.” I just want to tell you three things: pay ya taxes, learn English, and shut up and quit whining – because – everytime you come here – everytime you come to this country and you say [mocking a foreign accent] “Um, we like America we want to come to this country, let us speak our language” – you are ruining it for the rest of us! I had to stay out of school for one year, to learn English. I got held back a year, because my English was so poor. I could learn it, and I’m an adult, anybody can learn it.”
I have a question for Ergun.
Why do you lie so much?
At the very least, you spoke English from three on. You probably learned English in Sweden where just about everyone speaks it.
Why did you speak with a phony accent at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, only to have it wear off during the sermon?
Why are you such a fake?
Better look at his home page fast. It probably won't be up long.
http://www.erguncaner.com/
The home page of Ergun Caner no longer has a FAQ link. I think I somehow tapped into an old version of the Ergun Caner web site. The Debate and Awards links don't work. On the new web page the Debate link is also missing.
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Ergun's bio has been changed at his web site.
He still states that he was raised a "devout" Muslim.
Based on his woeful ignorance of basic Islam, I find that statement highly misleading.
It would be very hard for me to take a course from Caner. As an apologist, he leaves a lot to be desired.
He still states that he was raised a "devout" Muslim.
Based on his woeful ignorance of basic Islam, I find that statement highly misleading.
It would be very hard for me to take a course from Caner. As an apologist, he leaves a lot to be desired.
Ergun's bio has been changed at his web site.
He still states that he was raised a "devout" Muslim.
Based on his woeful ignorance of basic Islam, I find that statement highly misleading.
It would be very hard for me to take a course from Caner. As an apologist, he leaves a lot to be desired.
Not sure you even know what "woe ignorance" even is much less "basic Islam". But since you have now slandered him and questioned whether he was a devout Muslim why don't you defend your claim.
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