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Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2018.

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  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    We will not be flesh and blood for eternity.

    We will be like Jesus.
    Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
     
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  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    He is no longer flesh and blood but a resurrected body of flesh and bones.

    as resurrected individuals we will be alive by the power of the Spirit not oxygenated blood.

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, this passage does not prove what you want it to prove. Peter is merely using it to prove that Jesus had a physical resurrection as prophesied. That is because a king must have a physical body before He can rule from a physical throne. It says nothing about Jesus reigning over David's kingdom.
    Prove to me that this is David's throne and not the throne of the Kingdom of God. This chapter does not mention David. In fact, the whole book of 1 Cor. does not mention David. Until you learn that context is vital in interpretation, you will likewise fail in your efforts to convince.

    Well of course! This passage is about the future Kingdom on earth, the throne of David. And Christ (who is speaking) compares it to His throne in Heaven, that of the Kingdom of God. You have completely failed to prove anything here except that your interpretation is not literal.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's like Jesus said. His kingdom comes without observation, is within you, it is not of this world, and unless a person is born again, they cannot see it.
     
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  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes, that's specifically the Kingdom of God, not the throne of David. Read the passage again.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But Jesus is where now? Doing what? On whose Throne? Remember David's Throne is God's Throne.

    “Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.” 1 Kings 2:12 (KJV 1900)

    “Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.” 1 Chronicles 29:23 (KJV 1900)
     
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Common MO of the uninformed. The Uninformed: "Here is what you believe." Me: "Uh, no, I don't." The Uninformed: "Yes you do. You have to. That is the only way I can claim my false narrative is factual." Me: "Sorry, but your "factual narrative" is sadly lacking in facts."

    Until you can post quotes from the Pre-mil, A-mil, or Post-mil adherents here it is merely your uninformed opinion.

    This is very much like your "except doesn't mean except" argument. :)
     
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  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Bible doesn't count?
     
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  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    That sounds like Amillennialism to me. :)
     
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  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Please try to pay attention. You accused PEOPLE of believing something they don't believe. Nowhere in the bible will you find a verse that says "John of Japan believes the Kingdom is only physical."
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I do not accuse anyone of anything. Jesus says his kingdom is spiritual. He does not say it is, or ever will be physical. I simply point this out.
     
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  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is Amillennialism without the visible institutional church. And especially without the Church State.
     
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  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    That is a falsehood. Your OP states:
    That is what you said. Now you are denying you said what we can all go back to the OP and read for ourselves?

    You made a claim. You have been called on that false claim and you are, once again, obfuscating to try to get out of being held accountable for your falsehood.

    Your typical MO.
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    No, David's throne is David's throne. That's plain English. You can't change meaning in the Bible in that way without becoming Humpty Dumpty as portrayed by Lewis Carroll:

    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."
    (Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How do you refute the scriptures that say David's throne is God's throne? Quoted above?
     
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  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    That is because they do.....
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You did not give "scriptures." You gave two verses, one of which has nothing to do with David's throne.

    Your other verse was 1 Chronicles 29:23, “Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.” This might prove your point, but you did not say how, so what do you want me to say?

    As for refuting them, I don't want to refute the Bible. I want to refute you, but you don't give any statements for me to refute.
     
    #37 John of Japan, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Prove it. Post a quote that proves your assertion.
     
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    My son just pointed out to me that to say the Kingdom of God is only spiritual and not physical is a false dichotomy. How could it be manifested in the physical world as it is if it is only spiritual? And how can something be spiritual in such a way that it rules out the physical? As I've pointed out on this thread, we tread a line close to Gnosticism if we say that the physical is ergo, never spiritual. Gnosticism teaches that the physical is evil. We don't want to go there.

    So to say that the millennial throne of Jesus (the "throne of David") is physical but not spiritual is simply wrong. It is both.
     
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  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There is no scripture to prove a physical kingdom. But many proving it is spiritual.

    And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

    And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

    Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

    Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
     
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