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Featured ESV Vs. NLT

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by RipponRedeaux, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    For ages I have stated that the ESV needs to be updated into contemporary English grammar. The language is awkward and unwieldy for the most part. The translators left most of the O.T. RSV untouched. But even in the N.T. English stylists would have their work cut out for them. A grand exception is the book of Hebrews. Aside from five or six passages and gender exclusiveness, it has been done pretty well. My #1 complaint is how 13:2 is rendered at the end of the verse : "entertained angels unawares." That sounds like some backwoods hick. :)

    Anyway, I will show some comparisons in the book of Jeremiah. Not only is the English better in the NLT, but more accurate. Better English and better accuracy are quite the duo. As usual, I will be doing snips of verses that pinpoint my purpose. The E stands for the English Standard Version and N stands for the New Living Translation.

    1:17
    E : lest I dismay you before them
    N : or I will make you look foolish in front of them

    2:11
    E : people have changed their glory for that which does not profit
    N : people have exchanged their glorious God for worthless idols

    2:25
    E : for I have loved foreigners, and after them I will go
    N : I'm in love with these foreign gods, and I can't stop loving them.

    2:30
    E : I struck your children
    N : I have punished your children

    2:33
    E : How well you direct your course to seek love!
    N : How you plot and scheme to win your lovers.

    3:3
    E : you have the forehead of a whore
    N : you are a brazen prostitute

    3:19
    E : How I would set you among my sons
    N : I would love to treat you as my own children

    3:20
    E : a treacherous wife
    N : a faithless wife

    To be continued... as all threads must.
     
  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    From Jeremiah

    Chapter 4

    V.1
    E : do not waver
    N : stray away no more

    V. 3
    E : Sow not among thorns
    N : Do not waste your good seed among thorns

    V. 6
    E : Raise a standard...stay not
    N : Raise a signal flag...Flee now! Do not delay!

    V. 18
    E : it has reached your very heart
    N : piercing you to the heart

    V. 22
    E : know me not
    N : do not know me

    V. 27
    E : the whole land will be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end
    N : the whole land will be ruined, but I will not destroy it completely
     
  3. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    From Jeremiah chapter 5.

    V .5
    E : I will go to the great
    N : I will go and speak to their leaders

    V. 7
    E : trooped to the houses of whores
    N : lining up at the brothels

    V. 10
    E : vine rows
    N : rows of the vineyards

    V. 23
    E : this people has
    N : my people have
     
  4. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 6

    V.14
    E : They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, 'Peace, peace, when there is no peace.'
    N : They offer superficial treatments for my people's mortal wound. They give assurances of peace when there is no peace.

    V. 15
    E : they shall fall among those who fall
    N : they will lie among the slaughtered

    V. 19
    E : the fruit of their devices
    N : It is the fruit of their own schemes

    V. 22
    E : (a people is coming) from the north country
    N : a great army coming from the north!

    V. 24
    E : our hands fall helpless
    N : we wring our hands in fright
     
  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Snips From Jeremiah 7.

    V. 32
    E : it will no more be called Topheth
    N : that garbage dump will no longer be called Topheth

    V.32
    E : none will frighten them away
    N : no one will be left to scare them away

    Snips from chapter 8

    V. 5
    E : Why then has this people
    N : Then why do these people

    V. 7
    E : keep the time of their coming
    N : all return at the proper time

    V. 18
    E : grief is upon me
    N : My grief is beyond healing
     
  6. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    From chapter 9 :

    V. 18
    E : let them make haste and raise a wailing over us, that our eyes may run down with tears
    N : Quick! Begin your weeping.! Let the tears flow from your eyes.

    V. 20
    E : and each to her neighbor a dirge
    N : teach one another how to lament

    From chapter 10

    V. 8
    E : (the instruction of idols is but wood!)
    N : The things they worship are made of wood!

    V. 24
    E : lest you bring me to nothing
    N : for I would die

    V. 25
    E : the nations that know you not ... that call not on your name
    N : the nations that refuse to acknowledge you ...that do not call upon your name
     
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    being better able to understand does not mean better accuracy though
     
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  8. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    So does the inverse also apply? Does not being able to understand mean better accuracy?
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Think that the Esv does both quite well
     
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  10. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Think again. Show some examples of NLT phrases that I have listed in which they are less accurate than the corresponding ESV phrase.
     
  11. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    And Jeff, give reasons why the ESV is more accurate than the NLT in those examples you cite. Or you could take the lazy man's way out and excuse yourself from proving your dubious point.
     
  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Snips from Jeremiah 12

    V. 2
    E : you are near in their mouth
    N : Your name is on their lips

    V. 4
    E : He will not see our latter end
    N : The Lord doesn't see what's ahead for us!

    V. 11
    E : no man lays it to heart
    N : No one even cares

    V. 12
    E : no flesh has peace
    N : No one will escape!

    V. 13
    E : but profit nothing
    N : but it has done them no good

    V. 15
    E : I will bring them again each to his heritage
    N : I will bring them home to their own lands, again

    V. 16
    E : they shall be built up in the midst of my people
    N : they will be given a place among my people
     
  13. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Snips from Jeremiah 13 :

    V. 11
    E : might be for me a people
    N : They were to be my people

    V. 22
    E : (Why have these things come upon me?)
    N : Why is all of this happening to me?

    V. 25
    E : trusted in lies
    N : putting your trust in false gods

    V. 27
    E : How long will it be before you are made clean?
    N : How long before you are pure?
     
  14. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 14

    V. 4
    E : the ground that is dismayed
    N : The ground is parched

    V. 9
    E : you O Lord, are in the midst of us
    N : You are right here among us, Lord,

    V. 22
    E : Are you not he O Lord
    N : You are the one, O Lord
     
  15. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    How about full verse's for comparison? Only part of a verse does not make for a good comparision.
     
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  16. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I am deliberately targeting phrases and not full verses because of several reasons. It takes too much time. And it pinpoints the specific portions that should be addressed in future editions.
     
  17. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 15

    V. 7
    E : I have bereaved them
    N : take away the children you hold dear

    V. 15
    E : take me not away
    N : don't let me die young

    V. 16
    E : your words became to me a joy
    N : They are my joy

    V. 18
    E : Will you be to me like a deceitful brook?
    N : seems as uncertain as a seasonal brook

    V. 19
    E : you shall be as my mouth
    N : you will be my spokesman
     
  18. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    While going through the book of Jeremiah the over-abundance of the word thus is scattered throughout. It's a chore to wade through. The same applies to the over use of behold.

    Here's a breakdown of the frequency of thus in some Bible translations of Jeremiah :

    NASB : 0
    NABRE, 95, LEB and ESV : 164
    KJV : 174
    NKJV : 169
    NRSV : 163
    WEB : 16
    NET : 3

    Behold

    WEB : 137
    NASB, ESV : 131
    95 : 130
    KJV : 126
    NKJV : 113
    LEB : 4
    NRSV, NABRE : 1
    NET : 0
    NET : 0
     
  19. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 17

    V. 6
    E : shall not see any good come
    N : with no hope for the future

    V. 14
    E : for you are my praise
    N : My praises are for you alone

    V. 17
    E : Be not a terror to me
    N : Lord, don't terrorize me

    Chapter 23

    V. 36
    E : But 'the burden of the Lord' you shall mention no more, for the burden is every man's own word, and you pervert the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our our God.
    N: But stop using this phrase, 'prophecy from the Lord.' For people are using it to give authority to their own ideas, turning upside down the words of our God, the living God, the Lord of Heaven's Armies.
     
  20. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 34

    V.17
    E : I proclaim to you liberty to the sword
    N : I will set you free to be destroyed by war

    V. 18
    E : I will make them like the calf that they cut in two and passed between its parts --
    N : I will cut you apart just as you cut apart the calf when you walked between its halves

    46:5
    E : have fled in haste; they look not back
    N : run without a backward glance

    47:5
    E : Baldness has come upon Gaza
    N : Gaza will be humiliated, its head shaven bald

    50:7
    E : their habitation of righteousness
    N : their true place of rest

    51:3
    E : Let not the archer bend his bow, and let him not stand up in his armor. Spare not her young men;
    N : Don't let the archers put on their armor or draw their bows. Don't spare even her best soldiers.

    51:14
    E : Surely I will fill you with men
    N : Your cities will be filled with enemies

    51:34
    E : he has rinsed me out
    N : He has thrown us out of our own country.
     
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