Eternal Security

Ah okay. My apology .

He doesn't. And I never said that you can sin and not die. The wages of sin is death. That's the same for the saved and the unsaved alike!

Ken all that is saying is that a saved person can sin. It doesn't say that a person becomes unsaved because they sin. If that is the case then you could be saved and unsaved hundreds of times a day. Is that what you think? Do people fall in and out of the state of salvation several times a day?

By the way just another question out of curiousity. Do you think a person has to be baptized in order to be saved?

 

That's not made up. That's simply what the perfect tense verb means in Greek. There's nothing to make up. We either believe what is said or we don't.

 

Iamodd4god, Ken, OSAS has been debated on the BB since it was created. There are thousands of posts about it. When the dust settles, no one has changed his/her mind. Arguments for and against OSAS are a HUGE waste of time, time that could be spent in prayer and Bible study. If we'd do that, we'd all come to the same understanding of scripture. As it is, it is hopeless. Well, maybe not hopeless, but a staggering misuse of the time God has given us to worship, praise, and adore Him. :wavey:

 

How?

Does it take fear of losing salvation to motivate you to serve the Lord? Do you serve the Lord to keep yourself out of Hell? Do you not really want to, but do so because you have to?

Many Christians want to serve the Lord out of their desires. They serve because they want to please HIM, and expect to do it for the rest of their natural and eternal lives.

The Bible condones WILLING, EAGER, THANKFUL, CHEERFUL, LOVING service for the Lord.

 

HP: The tense of the verb is not what is made up. What is manufactured is the way you engineer the use of language that employs parts of speech.

Let me illustrate. Lets say that I am a benevolent dictator, and decide to will to you a certain parcel of land. I tell you that the land is to be considered as yours forever, but stipulate that you must in the meantime remain a loyal subject of my kingdom. Regardless of the tense of verbs I employ in the decree of granting you the land, are you now to come to me and tell me that because I used certain tenses of verbs in the original decree that it does not matter if you remain a loyal subject or not, that it was a forever deal and regardless of your conduct if I fail to remove all conditions, I am a liar, a cheat or a scoundrel?

Deny it as you may, God has set forth certain conditions the without which you or I will never see or inheritance into the kingdom come to fruition. We must reamin fathful unto the end. Yes we have received forgiveness of sins that are past, and have received the earnest of our inheritance, but the conditions of final reception into the kingdom of heaven is still yet to come for those of us living.

 

THAT'S IT! God has placed conditions on ENTRANCE into the kingdom, which is also referred to as our INHERITANCE!

Entrance into the kingdom/Inheritance is not the gift of everlasting life. Inheritance is an inheritance not a gift.

You are mixing contexts. And that was my whole point to Ken earlier. It's wonderful that you all see the warnings and the conditions. As it is easy to see in this thread alone a great many in Christendom do not or simply ignore them and go on about their business.

But when we see them we must correctly apply them. And the application is not to the gift of everlasting life, but to entrance into the kingdom/inheritance.

 

Iammodd4God,

Keep it up! :thumbs:

Myself former eternal security. I was taught eternal security doctrine from baptist churches and colleges. I thought eternal security is truth and doctrine. But, later I learned more from the Bible, I can easily see conditional in BIble. THere are tooooooo many conditionals throughout in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. There is not a single verse shown of unconditional security salvation.

Matthew 25:14-30 caused me left eternal security camp. Because verse 30 tells us that, a unfaithful servant shall be cast away into the lake of fire. Verse 30 shows conflict with eternal security doctrine. The context of Matt. 25:14-30 is very clear apply to us as servants. Anyone of us could be cast away into the lake of fire, if we fails to obey Christ. This passage is serious warning.

You are not alone who don't believe in eternal security. There are many people at Baptistboard don't believe in eternal security. Keep it up! :thumbs:
Tomorrow or during week, I will make posts on this with scriptures to prove that eternal security doctrine have lot of errors.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Amen brother Larry!

It all rest in "born again". Jesus could not have declared a more perfect unchangeable act of God. If one cannot grasp "born again" one will never understand their "eternal" security in Christ.

How can one stop believing that which they have been given absolute knowledge is truth?

The only condition on entrance into the kingdom of God (or Heaven) is "born again".

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I do not see how any of these beliefs teach that sin is okay. Do they actually say that God will not be displeased by these actions? Not that I can see.

Even Eternal Security believers believe there is lessening of reward or earthly chastisement -- or should if properly instructed. No one believes sin is without consequences or okay.

It is not my idea since I learned the Gospel and became a Christian -- not to say that you are not.

Now, I serve God because I want Him to be pleased by me -- I want to make Him happy. My idea is `I hope God is pleased by this-or-that.'

 

HP: When Scripture speak of our entrance into the kingdom, it is speaking concerning our entrance into the New Jerusalem, heaven, reserved for those that remained faithful and have kept their first estate.

HP: Says who? JJ? You are in error. Our inheritance is in fact a gift and a conditional one at that, eternal life in particular.

HP: Changing the import of their meaning as you do is just as wrong and just as harmful.

 

HP: To remove the penalty of sin, eternal separation from God, in any degree, is removing the Scriptural motivation to avoid it. No one has any right to change the penalty of sin. Loss of rewards is never said to be the penalty of sin for anyone, saint or sinner.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Pay close attention to the words, ‘wherewith he was sanctified.” Is the sinner sanctified?

When we preach a gospel that tells us that no amount or degree of sin will separate one from God, we are preaching a sinning religion, and as such are teaching that sin will not be punished by God with the punishment He said was the rightful and only punishment for sin. What we are saying to the congregation is, God would prefer that we do not sin, but if you do you will still make it into the kingdom, i.e., enherit eternal life. Loss of rewards is not a Scriptural punishment for sin, and even if it was it would serve little to no deterrent to sin in this present temporal world.

 

My reason to avoid sin is that Christ tells us to. As His follower, I think that alone ought to be enough.

 

HP: You sound like a genuine follower of Christ Darron.

Not only that, but God desires us to obey Him because we love Him, just as we desire our children to obey us out of love, not simply to avoid punishment.

 

Thank you, Heavenly Pilgrim. Hopefully, my life accords with my words.

There is one thing about threads like this that really, really, really bothers me. People come here to this board and to others and bash Eternal Security and those who believe it. The premise: `its believers simply want to live in wanton sin.'

For one thing, that is just plain mean. It is a blanket reviling of character of persons known and unknown. I know personally not even one single Eternal Security Christian who thinks it is okay to sin -- period. The accusations against those Christians are typically both uncharitable and false, and are against servants of Christ.

Second, it says `When fear of loss of salvation is gone, there is no reason to live obediently for Christ.' The implication is: `The only reason I can think of to serve the Lord is to avoid eternal barbecue for myself.' The implication: `I really do not really desire to serve the Lord, but it beats going to eternal barbecue' -- and that makes me sad.

 

Great question. After eternal salvation is complete the life and death that Scripture talks about is in relation to one's soul. So it's neither phyiscal death or spiritual death, but soulical death.

If you lose your life (same Greek word for soul) now you will find it. If you save your life now you will lose it.

This is all in conjunction with the gospel of the kingdom that Christ preached.

To whom much is given much is required. It would have been better for them to not have know the Truth regarding the salvation of their soul than to know the Truth and turn back.

Luke 12 - And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I think you answer to my last question got cut off. Do you believe a person has to be baptized to be saved?

 

Well it "says" kingdom, so I think I'll stick with that.

Says Scripture. Unless you have some that says an inheritance is a gift. I haven't seen it.

Gifts are undconditional or they wouldn't be gifts they would be wages.

Context tells us the meaning not the other way around.