"Eternally begotten of the Father"...?

But of course, that's the mark of Protestantism, you know, start your own, what's happening now church...so your pastor has no connections to any other Church? Who ordained your pastor? There's no sending church that sent your pastor out, he just woke-up one morning and decided to self ordain himself and start a church. Is it really that simple DHK? Doesn't sound like the NT Church to me...

Still DHK, where did you obtain your pastoral qualifications...what seminary did you attend? Like Timothy, who was your "St. Paul"?

InXC
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Apparently DHK the mail must be slow in Alberta, but March 23rd was Easter, you know the day in which the Protestant Church, including Rome marks the Resurrection of Christ?

I assume you also missed the memo on Christmas...the birth of Christ?

btw, here's a link to my pervious IFB Church I attended when I lived in Indianapolis, IN for four years. Faith Baptist Church They say they're the True Church and they on March 23rd marked the Resurrection of Christ.

InXC
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No, it is not the mark of Protestantism.
You show a total lack of knowledge in this subject. Why don't you just quit. Most protestants are noted for their large organizational structures and even hierarchal structure. Baptists have none, especially the IFB's. No we have no connections to any other church. What connections did Faith Baptist Church in Indianapolis have? What denomination are they a part of? You were there for four years? What denomination were they a part of?

Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Why do you persist in asking? I don't like boasting of my education. It does no good. Do you think that if I tell you what my qualifications are that that will convince you. No, it will only make you more skeptical. But to satisfy you: I have a B.A., M.A., M.Ed., and have been teaching in Bible College for over a quarter century. I was ordained in 1977.

 

Rome took over a day of the celebration of the goddess of Astarte, which eventually became Easter. I don't have anything to do with that, nor with the church of Rome. Neither did we ever come out of Protestantism, but existed before it.

I am not a Catholic. I don't believe in the "mass of Christ." That is a heretical belief. Christ was sacrificed once and once for all.

No doubt they do celebrate the Resurrection of Christ; but it is doubtful that they celebrate Easter.

 

I am asked question about my personal life, and you say I am quoting myself. What a lark! :laugh:

1. You quoted me as saying:
" IFB churches are not Protestants and never were. They were not part of the Protestant movement."

I don't need to provide evidence for that (at least not right now, for this is not the thread for it), because I have given testimony that our church is not a part of the Protestant movement, and never has been. It is an Independent Church apart from all other Protestant churches. Either believe my testimony or call me a liar. Apparently you revel in calling me a liar, for you know nothing of my church, and refuse the testimony of me and of my church even though you have never been here.

I also have challenged Agnus to go to his former church, Faith Baptist, and ask what denomination they belong to? Apparently he has not done that, and is not willing to.

2. You quoted me as saying:
You don't know what a "church" is. My "church" doesn't belong to a "Church", something that doesn't exist.
--I thought you knew better than this. This is not just my authority; but the authority of the Greek language.
"Ekklesia" means assembly, every time it is used in the NT. It has no other meaning. If it was properly translated (as it is in the Darby translation) it would be translated either "assembly" or "congregation." That is what the word means. There is no such thing as a universal church except in heaven where all believers will be gathered together as one assembly. My local church is my assembly, my congregation. There is no such thing as a denomination in the Bible. You won't find it there.

You won't find it in the Greek. You won't find it in the doctrine of ecclesiology (theology). It isn't there. Every church made its own decisions. None of the churches were related to each other. What went on in Corinth was completely separate from what went on in Philippi. The letters written to both churches were not from some greater church organization, or from a pope. Paul was a missionary giving advice to churches that he had been to, and churches that he had started. That is the only connection that he had to these churches. They had no connection to one another. They were all independent of each other and made their decisions as churches. I take my authority from the Word of God.

3. You quoted me saying:
"A "church" (ekklesia) is an assembly of believers that are baptized and gathered together for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission and the commands that Christ has given them. That is the only type of church that is defined in the Bible. There is no other."

The above definition of a local church is found in many Baptist statements of faith and also in many Baptist textbooks such as Hiscox's "A New Directory of Baptist Churches," a common textbook used in many Bible Colleges.
Need I go on?

No, you are making yourself look very foolish.

As to credentials I answered even though I don't have her.
There is a place for anonymity on this board. I like to keep it that way.
As for general policy. It is in the power of the local church itself to ordain a pastor (after reviewing his credentials). The local church alone has that power. It was given to the local church by God himself. You will find that in Scripture. Study Acts 13:1-4, along with Acts 14:23.

 

Please DHK, we all know you’re not Catholic…I ask if your Church celebrates Christmas or scratch that, does your Church celebrate the Birth of Christ on December 25th traditionally known as “Christmas”?

Does you’re Church celebrate the Resurrection of Christ, was it on March 23rd, traditionally known as “Easter”?

DHK, don’t hem haw around, just answer the questions…

InXC
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If you are an atheist, and I tell you that if can prove beyond any shadow of doubt that Christ arose from the dead, will you accept my proof. The atheist invariably answers "NO." You are the same way. I have answered over and over and over again. Why do you repeat the same silly questions for me to repeat the same answers which really have nothing to do with this thread.

No, I do not celebrate Christmas in any way on December 25.
Is that clear enough. Don't ask me again. No false innuendos. No false accusations. Leave it.

No, I do not celebrate Easter in any way.

Now as a moderator of this thread, if you keep on about these questions, which have been asked and answered multiplied times I will have to delete them if they are asked again. They have nothing to do with the topic of the thread, do they?

 

See DHK, I have to ask such questions, b/c you claim that you’re an IFB and this confuses me, b/c again I was raised IFB, my dad is a deacon in a IFB Church and we always celebrated the Birth of Christ on December 25th and the Resurrection of Christ during Easter. Granted there were no “Santa Claus” or “Easter Bunny”, but those days were always set aside with special music, a dinner, maybe even a presentation, but always growing up we knew what “Christmas” and “Easter” was truly about.

Doesn’t the Jehovah’s Witnesses not celebrate Christmas either? That’s odd.

In XC
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DHK, so the IFB Church is like the Orthodox Church…”Pre-Denominational”. How far back can you trace the word “Baptist” in regard to Churches being called “Baptist”?

Also, for the class DHK, can you name a few second, third, fourth, fifth century “Baptist” fathers that were martyred and also provide for the class documentation of their martyrdom what they believed theologically (to see if that fits with today’s Baptist distintives) and what were the names of these “pre-denominational” “Baptist” Churches and there locations geographically?

InXC
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Did your pastor preach the truth about "Easter?"

[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm[/FONT]


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Did he preach the truth about Christmas?[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That Christ was never born on Dec.25.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That the early Christians never celebrated Christians.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That his birth was probably in the spring when the shepherds were out tending their sheep.
[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That Dec.25, like Easter, is also associated with pagan feasts and rituals.
[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

The key is in the word "Independent. We are not a denomination, if you ask your former pastor. We are independent of each other. We have our own statements of faith. We are not bound to each other by one catechism. It is the beauty of sola scriptura. Search the web for other IFB churches. You will find that they differ in their statements of faith, but only by a little bit. Study up on it.

 

No, he didn’t, but what’s funny is that what you posted, both about Easter and Baptism from another Thread in terms of history is also in the History of Civilization volume set. My IFB Pastor used that source to preach a whole series on Islam. When I went to the Library to verify his source I also found that the same author slammed Christianity as being a rip-off from paganism and used your cites as proof.

When I questioned him, he told me to keep it quite…he didn’t expect people to verify his sources.

The same source you cite in terms of “Easter” is the same material atheists use to discredit Christianity as being a rip-off of various pagan beliefs…I’m ashamed of you pastor…what if some soul searching out the truth reads your cites and convinces him, that Christianity is a hoax?

Fortunately, I’m strong in my faith, to celebrate Easter, with the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts, and all the festivities and still keep in the forefront of all the festivities that what this is all about is our Lord trampling down death by death, that Hades couldn’t contain Him and His Church is pretty good at that, from what I just experienced last week of Holy Week.

What do you think “Non-Denomination” means?

Beauty of Sola Scriptura? Beauty? Your Churches can’t even agree on a statement of faith, causing nothing more than confusion. How’s one supposed to know which “independent” Church is has the “right” statement of faith?

At least in the Antiochian Jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church, we enjoy Autocephaly, meaning we are “Self-headed”, but still our Creed and our Liturgy is what bounds us to each of the other Orthodox Churches; which means I can visit an Orthodox Church in Romania and will recite the same creed and enjoy the same Liturgy as I would in Wichita, KS and the same theology. I could then travel to Lebanon and do the same, back to Moscow, then to Greece and never have to worry that I’m in a Church of not like faith.

I did…hence I left…

InXC
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I posted the history of Easter and Christmas. There are many people, Baptist and others, that would disagree with me (not on the history), but using that as a reason not to celebrate the two events. One of the Baptist distinctives we hold dearly and have fought for throughout the centuries is soul liberty--the right for one to believe what is right and true. Faith Baptist may celebrate those events; I don't. It is a matter of soul liberty. The teaching isn't an essential doctrine. It isn't a fundamental of the doctrine. It really doesn't matter does it? It is not going to affect my standing with God, my salvation, whether I go to heaven or hell, my walk with God, etc. It simply is a matter of believing what the Bible teaches on a certain subject. Thus we can agree to disagree and still be brothers in Christ and have fellowship one with another pertaining to this one subject.

Likewise our views on Islam are bound to be the same. I am not sure what your complaint was there. Information on Islam can be gathered from many different sources: both religious and secular.

Because Christianity is not a hoax as is demonstrated by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A dictionary has many words in it. Do I disregard a dictionary because some of the words I dislike? That seems to be your logic here.

Perhaps you are weak in your faith and that is why you celebrate Easter with all of its pagan additions. It is all tradition, most of it pagan. You don't have the backbone to stand up for what is right.

It means that you accept people of any denomination into your church. It means that your church has sacrificed some doctrine on the altar of unity. For the sake of unity and compromise the non-denominational church is weak in doctrine and will not preach against certain doctrines which will affect other denominations. That is why it is non-denominational. It has no backbone.

Like I stated our statements of faith are very similar with minor differences. The celebration of Christmas or Easter is a very minor difference, wouldn't you say. It is not going to affect a person's salvation. If you want to know which is the "right" statement of faith, then do what you are supposed to do: study your Bible.

What you have is a man-made creed, made of fallible men, that you must keep as dumb sheep following a blind shepherd.
Our churches are not so. We are urged to study the Word. Sola scriptura encourages us to do so. If it is based on the Bible, we make sure that what is preached is indeed based on the Bible. There are checks and balances.
Read Acts 17:11
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

You obviously did not do as well as the Bereans did, did you?

 

Do I disregard a dictionary because some of the words I dislike? That seems to be your logic here.

InXC
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Back on the "Endless Loop"

(This is by no means a perfect illustration, but please bear with me).

American football is a different game to British football. The players abide by different sets of rules. Imagine a discussion involving American players and British footballers. The subject of handling the ball comes up. "Only the goal-keeper may handle the ball; if anyone else handles it, it is a foul!" says a British player. "Not right!" says an American, "Players can handle the ball!" They won't agree, because they are relying on two different authorities.

Is it not at least a similar situation when those like me, who believe that the bible is our sole authority discuss matters with those like "the Latin Lamb" (Agnus), who don't? The arguments will go round and round, but without agreement on the matter of authority, discussions on anything else will inevitibly come down to discussing the same thing - authority. That seems to have happened in this thread.

 

Eternal Sonship

The original post to this thread concerned the question of the eternal sonship of Jesus. I am getting into the tail end of this discusion. I will start from the beginning and comment accordingly, if the subject has not changed too drastically. If that is not acceptable to all involved please inform me so. [email protected]