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FACT CHECK: Ryan takes factual shortcuts in speech

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Crabtownboy, Aug 30, 2012.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I realize I am risking your wrath but I disagree. Being several hundred miles removed from the Duke of Paducah I feel somewhat safe!
     
    #21 OldRegular, Aug 30, 2012
  2. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    OR,
    I understand why you do not want the ticket reversed, because you wish Obama was on the Republican ticket, then you could vote for Obama with a clear conscience. LOL
     
    #22 saturneptune, Aug 30, 2012
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I'm confused, can you give a link to the Executive Order that Bush signed to close down the GM plant?
     
    #23 Salty, Aug 31, 2012
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    No president gave the order. Ryan tried to blame Obama and hedged on the truth, by omission of facts. Obama was not in office, so Ryan was playing fast the loose with the truth.

    Actually IMHO no president can be blamed for the plant closing. The American auto industry brought a lot of trouble on itself through years of shoddy auto manufacturing. Lee Iaccoca made this pretty clear in his book and in interviews.

    The announcement of the plant closing was made in 2008 while Bush was still in office. The actual closing was in 2009 in accordance with the 2008 announcement.

    But Ryan played loose and free with facts several times in his speech. For instance he severely criticized Obama on money taken from Medicare but failed to mention the same amount was slated to be slashed in his own plan.

    Ryan pilloried Obama’s stimulus bill but Ryan lobbied for stimulus money for his district. The major economic success stories in Janesville—a business incubator, a new medical manufacturer, and a new highway project that will benefit local warehousing businesses—are all linked to federal money, including money from Obama’s 2009 stimulus. Ryan was silent on the successes brought about by the stimulus money in his own district.

    Finally, Ryan attacked Obama for ignoring the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles debt commission but omitted mentioning that he, Ryan, was a member of the debt commission but voted against the plan when the in the House. Why criticize Obama for not acting when he, Ryan, voted that nothing be done by voting against the commission's suggestions.

    There are two kinds of lies.

    Lies of commission, that is telling an untruth.

    There are lies of omission, withholding fact and not telling the whole truth.

    There is politics in hoping that no one notices or is so tied to a political party that sins of omission are defended.

    Then there is just plain ignorance.

    With Ryan in this speech IMHO you have a choice of believing one of three things:

    1. He was simply ignorant.
    2. He was playing dirty politics
    3. He was guilty of the lie of omission.

    Take you pick.     N
     
    #24 Crabtownboy, Aug 31, 2012
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ryan did not blame the President. You are either <PA deleted-LE>.

    It is your facts that are loose and free

    And apparently you missed his real point or are working to intentionally misrepresent what he said. Shame on you.

    And you are and have a habit of doing both.
     
    #25 Revmitchell, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  6. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Why do you not try to give some information rather than just opinion and attempt to insult others. It would be appreciated. You said nothing to support your opinions. At least I gave information. Why not try doing the same Rev.?
     
    #26 Crabtownboy, Aug 31, 2012
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Once again you are <PA deleted - LE>. I suggest you go back through this thread and read all the posts.
     
    #27 Revmitchell, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  8. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Give some examples to back up your opinion. Your opinion with nothing to back it up only makes you look uninformed and foolish.

    I gave specific examples. You gave nothing ... which is to be expected.
     
    #28 Crabtownboy, Aug 31, 2012
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Hey, what part of "go back and read through the tread" do you not understand. Again you are just being dishonest. You have been busted for your false information in this thread. I and others have given support and facts to prove it and now you are afraid to go back and admit your claims of Ryan are debunked by me and others. Go back and read my posts and others so you will stop looking so foolish.
     
    #29 Revmitchell, Aug 31, 2012
  10. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Although basically I agree with you politically, your posts are sharp and demeaning. That is really not necessary, especially from a leader in a local New Testement church. One can express a dislike for the issues without taking down CTB personally. CTB gives you opinions on the issues. There is a big difference between saying someone is lying and calling a difference of opinion as not true. How does CTB look ignorant? He is very well versed in history, politics, and government. I just happen to disagree with him. Maybe you should not be accusing anyone of ignorance in these subjects.
     
    #30 saturneptune, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    What is a "tread"? What does the wear on a tire have to do with the thread? No one busted CTB, the police do that for a criminal action. You have no evidence CTB is afraid. CTB does not look foolish, which the Bible address that name by the way, he looks liberal.
     
    #31 saturneptune, Aug 31, 2012
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    You actually thought I was serious :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #32 Salty, Aug 31, 2012
  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Obviously you do not like the VP pick for the Republicans. I do think that maybe you should give Ryan some time to see if he can do something to help the state of this nation in relation to the deficit, economy, Social Security, Medicare, with his ideas. We cannot continue on the present track for much longer before we are a reflection of Europe. What would Obama do differently in his second term? It seems obvious something must be done differently. Although this is not the perfect ticket from a conservative standpoint, IMO, maybe you should have more of an open mind about their ability to help the nation.
     
    #33 saturneptune, Aug 31, 2012
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Being one of them thevin Republicans I stole the following from Mexdeaf"s thread:

    http://www.caintv.com/TodaysclarioncalloftheleftRyan-323

    And just think CTB I did all this just for little ole "YoU"!
     
    #34 OldRegular, Aug 31, 2012
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    OK S/N that is hitting below the belt. To the woodshed with you. Tom is on the way over with his razor strop! You do know what a razor strop is donchu? Well you are gonna find out real soon!
     
    #35 OldRegular, Aug 31, 2012
  16. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Yep, facts are curious things.
     
    #36 LadyEagle, Aug 31, 2012
  17. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    GM announced the plant was to close 5 months before the election in 2008. The closure did not occur until 2009, so Obama cannot be blamed, the deed was already in the works before he was elected.

    And in fairness it was not Bush's fault either as I mentioned in an earlier post.

     
    #37 Crabtownboy, Aug 31, 2012
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    True, the plant closure was announced during Bush's presidency. Obama became President and a month later passed the Stimulus bill. Why wasn't there money in the Stimulus bill for Janesville's GM plant to re-tool? Where is the government assistance that Obama promised 6 months earlier?
     
    #38 InTheLight, Aug 31, 2012
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    <PA edited - LE>
    Exodus 20:16. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
     
    #39 OldRegular, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Obama had already won Wisconsin so why bother. He finally admitted there were no shovel ready jobs; but this was after "Obama's $800+ billion stash" had been awarded to those deserving bundlers and assorted other supporters.
     
    #40 OldRegular, Aug 31, 2012
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