Faith # 6

[Brightfame52]

Faith to believe on Christ must come from the Fathers Revelation of Him !

Matt 11:25-27

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

This is saying that no man by nature knows who really the Son is, it must be from a revelation of the Father. Peter once said this Matt 16:13-16

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus said to Peter vs 17

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus is saying, that this knowledge of knowing who He is as the Christ, the Son of God, was something Peter could not have known naturally or by flesh and blood ! 24

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith to believe on Christ must come from the Fathers Revelation of Him 2


Please pay special attention to Jesus words, they are very very important Matt 11:27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

That word knoweth is very important, its the word epiginōskō which means:

1. to become thoroughly acquainted with, to know thoroughly
2. 1. to know accurately, know well
   to know
   1. to recognise
   2. 1. by sight, hearing, of certain signs, to perceive who a person is
      to know i.e. to perceive
   3. 
      to know i.e. to find out, ascertain
   4. 
      to know i.e. to understand

This is important because a person cannot call upon the Name of Jesus if they dont know Him, know His Name . How can we call upon the Name of the Lord if we dont know who it is. Paul writes Rom 10:13-14

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call[upon His Name] on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Now, to Call upon the Name of the Lord, one has to have believed, and heard of Him. In order to believe in Christ, there must have been a revealing of Him to us by the Father, otherwise we have no knowledge of who Christ is by nature. Thats why it is written Jn 6:44-45

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And this being learned of the Father, the Father revealing Him to us is part of that process Matt 11:27

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So a carnal natural man, born only of the flesh, could never believe in Christ, because flesh and blood cannot reveal Him to us, it must be done by the Father, via the Holy Spirit. 24

 

[cjab]

So a carnal natural man, born only of the flesh, could never believe in Christ, because flesh and blood cannot reveal Him to us, it must be done by the Father, via the Holy Spirit. 24

What you say depends on what you mean by "carnal natural man." If you mean "all unbelievers," your statement makes little sense, unless it be qualified by an emphasis on the demonic and apostate. There are no spiritual prerequisites to being born from above. How could there be? Such would be putting the cart before the horse. There is nothing in anything you said above to suggest that the Father cannot reveal Christ to a unbeliever by his Word. New birth comes by the Word of "the Spirit", cf. John 6:63, which Word Jesus identifies as "spirit and life" and not by the indwelling Holy Spirit (even if the Word itself is of the Holy Spirit) - precluded, just because Jesus being the Christ was revealed to Peter and other apostles before the Holy Spirit was ever given to them (albeit given to Christ).

The few allusions to "natural men" in scripture tend to be allusions to the demonic (e.g. James 3:15) and to those who refuse to accept the Word of God rather than to mere unbelievers per se. It is the Calvinist error to lump the demonic and apostate with mere unbelief. The two are rather distinguished in biblical teaching.

 

[Brightfame52]

What you say depends on what you mean by "carnal natural man."

I stated what I meant "

So a carnal natural man, born only of the flesh,

 

[Ben1445]

I stated what I meant

So a carnal natural man, born only of the flesh,

1 Corinthians 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Silly Corinthians. They should have known they needed to be born of the spirit before showing up to church.

 

[cjab]

I stated what I meant "

Not all unbelievers are characterised as "natural men." Many become converted on hearing the gospel. They receive the Word of God. Those that don't perhaps are the "natural men," who are pre-eminently defined by 1 Cor 2:14 as "receiving not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The adjective carnal has a more extended usage.

"Carnal" is used even of infants in Christ, translating the Greek word σαρκινός ("fleshly") 1 Cor 3:1. Believers described as carnal are not seen as beyond redemption, but as immature and lacking understanding in spiritual things.

Certainly I would see all unbelievers as "carnal" or "fleshly." But I think "natural men" is a category type referring to the very worst of men, insensate to the gospel, laden with sins, and who cannot be induced to repent, such as the Jewish persecutors of Christ, Annas & Caiaphas.

So, your thesis is how do the carnally minded become converted? I am not sure that natural men are included in the gospel: they seem be the NT equivalent of the Amalekites. As to the carnal, my answer is by submitting to and receiving the Word of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

1 Corinthians 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Silly Corinthians. They should have known they needed to be born of the spirit before showing up to church.

The Corinthians were Spiritual, the Spirit indwelt them as Per 1 Cor 6 19

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Paul wrote to the Romans that if a person has the Spirit of God, they are not in the flesh Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So thats different from the carnal natural man born only of the flesh. You should have done your research !

 

[Brightfame52]

Not all unbelievers are characterised as "natural men."

Yes they are. The only exception would be a regenerate unbeliever who hasnt yet heard and believed the Gospel. But other than that, all the unregenerate unbelievers are mere natural men in the flesh, even if they are very seriously religious

 

[cjab]

Yes they are.

Your authority? Paul says natural men do not receive the gospel.

The only exception would be a regenerate unbeliever who hasnt yet heard and believed the Gospel. But other than that, all the unregenerate unbelievers are mere natural men in the flesh, even if they are very seriously religious

In Israel there were many who credited God, even prophets, but also pagans willing to credit Christ. Religion was not invented by Christ. It has existed in the world since Adam. Christ said "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32. The point is that sinners who repent are not "natural men" per the Pauline definition, for natural men do not receive the gospel. 1 Cor 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God."

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith accompanies Salvation, which is Christ !


The Pre Cross Saint once said Lk 2:30

For mine eyes have seen thy salvation ! Hes speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ, for its He that is Gods Salvation to His People, Hes the Gift of God Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

John Gill writes on Jn 4:10:

if thou knewest the gift of God; meaning, not the Holy Spirit with his gifts and graces, as some think, but himself; for the following clause is explanatory of it;
and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; and Christ is also spoken of in the Old Testament, as the gift of God, Isaiah 9:6 and he had lately spoken of himself as such, John 3:16 and he is, by way of eminency, "the gift of God"; which is comprehensive of all others, is exceeding large, and very suitable to the wants and cases of men; and is irrevocable, unchangeable, and unspeakable: for he is God's gift, as he is his own and only begotten Son; and he is given for a covenant to the people, with all the promises and blessings of it; and as an head, both of eminence and influence; and to be a Saviour of them, and a sacrifice for their sins; and as the bread of life, for them to feed and live upon; of which gift, men are naturally ignorant, as this woman was: they know not the dignity of his person; nor the nature and usefulness of his offices; nor the way of peace, righteousness, and salvation by him; nor do they see any amiableness, or loveliness in him; and whatever notional knowledge some natural men may have of him, they know him not spiritually and experimentally, or as the gift of God to them:

Now Christ being the Gift of God unto a World of People He would save from their sins, with Him, God freely gives or bestows all things necessary to save them and cause them to live unto Him that Loved them !

Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he notwith him also freely give us all things?

Now with the giving of Christ here WITH HIM, God surely gives us all things together !

The word with here is the greek word sun and means:

sýn (a primitive preposition, having no known etymology) – properly, identified with, joined close-together in tight identification; with (= closely identified together).

accompanied (1), accompanied* (1), accompany* (2), along (10), associates (2), besides* (1), companions* (2), including (1), together (1).


The sacred writer in Heb makes it clear that things accompany Salvation [which is Christ] Heb 6:9

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

This verse in the original has the definite article before the word for things :

πεπείσμεθα δὲ περὶ ὑμῶν ἀγαπητοί τὰ κρείσσονα καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν

Definite things accompany Salvation, or the giving of Christ. The word accompany echo means:

to hold oneself to a thing, to lay hold of a thing, to adhere or cling to; to be closely joined to a person or thing


I believe this verse confirms Rom 8:32 that God gives all things along with the giving of Christ, Our Salvation. I believe also that these all things that are given along with Christ, are those things that effect unto us a life of Godliness 2 Pet 1:3

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

That word godliness eusebeia means:

piety (towards God), godliness, devotion, godliness. properly, someone's inner response to the things of God which shows itself in godly piety (reverence).


So " someone's inner response to the things of God which shows itself in godly piety (reverence)." is freely given, with Christ to those He was delivered up for !


And one of such things that promotes godly piety towards God is Faith, Faith accompany's Salvation, Faith that Pleases God Heb 11:6 !

 

[Brightfame52]

Paul says natural men do not receive the gospel.

Yes thats right, but a regenerate person who has not yet heard the Gospel isnt a natural man