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Featured 'Faith Alone' and James 2:24.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Martin Marprelate, Mar 15, 2016.

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  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I believe that. It works. If you take love away from any religion the religion remains useless.

    Brother is our God so weak I can thwart him? You say yourself our works have no bearing on salvation so there can't be any bettering or worsening of a soul on my part.


    If I had told you Mary was God you would have the righteousness to throw a hissy fit, correctly. And call it idolatry.

    But because I tell you Love is God your waiting for someone else to throw the first stone.


    Inside a person is a optimist, the goodness is defending. The coward, The accuser is trembling.

    A coward only respects violence, power and fear. A good person is fearless, they can't be threatened, they are not impressed with power, They have a responsibility to every soul on earth as if that were their own child. One can be evil that moves mountains the good just sees a toddler who is afraid.

    Here is the phrase that would be a problem if your version were true:

    1 john 4:16
    the one who abides in love abides in God

    The play against this is God is Love, but Love is not God, Love is an "attribute". Or to identify love as other things then Agape, or impose that another's belief that God is merely a force or emotion opposed to a person.

    You'd have to scratch out the above verse to make that work.

    If I said "he who abides in biscuits abides in God", I'd be stoned to death for idolatry or made head of marketing of a chicken chain.

    They are telling you straight up, The one who solely depends on Love is the one solely depending on God.

    If Love was not God that statement would not be acceptable.


    Notice the spirit against this is one of accusation, The devil can't stand Love, because Love is God.
     
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Let's see what 1 John chapter 4 actually begins with;
    1 John 4:1-3,
    "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.."

    Your "another gospel" has been destroyed! And not by me, by the very Word of God which you oppose. Paul spent most of his NT letters dealing with antichrist opposition which kept demanding to him that confessing Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (The Way) was not necessary for salvation, they only needed to follow their OT Law of Love God and Love thy neighbour.

    Paul was very blunt, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha" (Gal 16:22).

    Your gospel tells Paul 'NO! A person can love God and Love thy neighbour WITHOUT loving the Lord Jesus Christ and be just fine for heaven in any religion'.
     
    #62 steaver, Mar 31, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Firstly,

    Jesus Christ has come in the flesh! Amen!

    1 John 4
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


    ^you can't love Jesus if you don't love the brothers you do see.

    Cannot love God is a future event, the word is "CANNOT".

    And the original greek is even more brutal, pointing out the able-ness. So one who does not love the brothers he does see is incapable of loving God.

    Satan prefers the BACKWARDS message.

    Notice its not the BACKWARDS if don't love the God you don't see then you cannot love the brothers you do see.


    1 Corinthians 16
    22If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed. Maranatha

    ^ thank you for the ammo brother. I never read that verse. Loving the lord is required. It drives the point I'm trying to make, Faith Alone without Love is not a saving faith.

    God is literally too good to be true, Go figure.



    Matthew 6

    14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
    See the above verse. I can say AMEN. Because I love the order of Jesus states. You have to forgive others first..........THEN you get that forgivingness of God.

    Satan wants to read it BACKWARDS

    For if GOD forgives you your transgression, Then you will forgive others.

    Which way is better Christ's or Satan's? one of these is the word of the lord and in the bible. The other is fake trash and opposed to the word of the lord.



    Satan wants you to forget God's first move was creating man and it is a good thing. He wants you to blame God for when things are your own fault.
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Nobody has argued that point, in fact we all embrace James whom declares faith without works is dead. And Paul's declaration that faith without love is worthless as well.

    1 Cor 16:22 speaks directly against YOUR point that one can love God and love thy neighbour, yet reject Jesus Christ is come in the flesh and be given eternal life. The Apostle John speaks directly against YOUR position as well declaring YOUR position the spirit of antichrist. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, no matter how much they appear to love God and love thy neighbour, is a liar and shall not enter into life eternal. It is as Paul put it "another gospel" you are preaching.
     
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    This is a trick of the devil. Notice how you misquoted the Word of God and then continued on as though you had quoted the Truth. The spirit of antichrist hates the name Jesus Christ. This you left out when you quoted the verse and continue to ignore while you argue against belief in Jesus' name playing any role in salvation.. Go figure.

    Here is the correct reading.... "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha" (Gal 16:22). It is revealing that you left Jesus Christ out and considered this verse as "ammo" against one having to love Jesus Christ in order to NOT be cursed.
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Well pope, steaver that settles faith alone is trash.

    I could answer your here but I think you should get back on the other thread:

    "yet reject Jesus Christ"

    The qualifications of rejecting Jesus Christ are centered around the commandments.


    I just showed you a persons inability to love God unless they love neighbor. 1 john 4

    1 John 4
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


    Jesus' own weigh in on the matter:

    John 14

    15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.




    Jesus himself gives a parable. two sons.

    28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.


    Of course Satan loves that BACKWARD version of that story.

    It goes along with the once saved always saved doctrine he laid out in genesis "you surely will not die"
     
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    #1 there is no Galatians 16.
    #2 that was the first time I saw that line. I went to bible hub searched for it found it nasb.

    I love Jesus Christ. I'm fine with your quote.....Even your GALATIANS 16.:p
     
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    And this is YOUR "another gospel". This is the spirit of antichrist which wants to point away from the name Jesus Christ and point to the Law. In all your arguments you keep going back to the Law... 'keep the Law and you will be saved'.

    Paul is clear..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)

    There is that name you oppose so much in your arguments..Jesus Christ. Just ask a practicing Jew or a Muslim if they love the Lord Jesus Christ sometime and see what answer you get. The Jew may answer they love their brother Jesus, but will reject the fact that you called Him Lord and Christ. The Muslim may answer they love Him as a Prophet, but will also reject the title Lord and Christ. So these two groups do not love the Lord Jesus Christ at all, even if they appear to love their version of God and neighbour.
     
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    It isn't "my" quote, it is God's. You love the Lord Jesus Christ? Wonderful! The quote declares those who do not are accursed! But you want to advocate that they are saved as long as they follow the Law.
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    John 14

    15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


    28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.

    1 John 4
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Wonderful!!! Whom is the "Me"?

    "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha". (1 Cor 16:22)

    Ask a Jew or a Muslim if they love the Lord Jesus Christ.....(don't forget to include the titles)
     
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    They would have to love Jesus Christ else they would not be following the Law.

    This isn't a either-or issue, we can't divide Jesus from God from love of God and love of neighbor.

    God is God, a rose by any other name is still what it is.
     
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You are the one dividing Jesus from God, trying to erase His name from the way to Eternal Life. You have been arguing against the Scripture I posted which declares a person must believe on the name and person of Jesus Christ to be saved. You keep saying 'no,no, as long as they are following the Law of Love they do not have to confess the Lord Jesus Christ'. I have presented multiple Scriptures, all of which you have denied or reworded in an attempt to sound like you have no problem with them.

    Not only are you denying God's command to believe on His Son and the name of His Son, but by doing so you are denying a person must believe on the Works of the Son in order to be saved. By your preaching a sinner does not need to believe Jesus is Lord, or Jesus is Christ, or Jesus died on a cross as God's atonement for sin, or was resurrected again to life by the power of God.

    I certainly hope this is not the normal belief of Catholics abroad. None have jumped in to correct you so I am afraid it may be. In your preaching that a sinner only needs to believe in God and follow God's Law of Love, you have gutted the entire NT Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is what Paul argued against over and over. The Jews wanted to be "ok" just following the Law and Loving God. Paul said NO! A sinner must believe on the name of Jesus Christ and confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Rejecting Jesus Christ is rejecting salvation, it is rejecting the ONLY means of receiving eternal life.

    "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Ro 10)

    Paul, and Jesus, told the Pharisees over and over again that the ONLY way a sinner is to satisfy God's righteousness is to believe on Jesus Christ receiving Him as their Lord and Saviour. They, as you are doing, reject this Way and say 'God is God, it matters NOT what Way we worship Him or if we confess the name of Jesus Christ, as long as we have Love'. This is the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4)
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Sermon on the mount.

    Jesus walks up the top........"Accept me as your personal Lord and Savior"

    Did not happen.

    If your idea of Christ were true, that's exactly how it would have went down rather then chapters on chapters of instruction that don't even mention accepting him as lord and savior.

    Not only does it accuse Jesus of being a megalomaniac, but a dumb megalomaniac,one who can't deliver a simple statement for the salvation of others.

    Jesus could have directly said what you are saying.....NOPE, instead he give you tons of trivial advice that has no bearing on salvation.
     
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Do you only own a fragment of the NT Scripture? Do you think Jesus and His Apostles have to deal with receiving Jesus Christ as Lord in every sentence they wrote?

    Do you understand what this means? "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." True or False?
     
  16. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The meaning and contrast to it is explained:

    2 John 1

    4I was very glad to find some of your children walking in truth, just as we have received commandment to do from the Father. 5Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
    7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.




    If you think acknowledgement of existence of Jesus Christ as God let alone an existence of God is the requirement. Satan believes and meets your requirement perfectly.

    Satan can believe, have perfect faith, exercise works(not good works) and still fails miserably.

    1 Corinthians 13
    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.




    Mark 1
    24saying, “What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”


    The first time you ever hear "HOLY ONE OF GOD" is from a demon! according to Mark.

    He knows who he is. Does this demon not acknowledge Jesus come in the flesh? Answering your way indeed, He thought Jesus was going to destroy him right there. he calls Jesus "HOLY ONE OF GOD"

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God?

    Has this demon confessed it? He said "HOLY ONE OF GOD"?

    I guess its not the spirit of the anti-Christ...?


    He has not confessed it, it is anti-Christ. For it does not love one another.

    Love is the make or break.
     
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    And there is your error exposed and summed up in one sentence.

    The bible and I say it must be both faith in Jesus Christ AND love as the evidence there is true faith in Jesus Christ. Your doctrine cast out Jesus Christ and makes faith in His works and sayings a worthless thing.
     
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Faith and Love huh? starting to crack :D
    That's not "FAITH ALONE"


    John 10
    37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

    Even Jesus Christ is held to the standard of LOVE FIRST.


    John 14
    11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.


    Would your version of Jesus say the above? Absolutely not.

    11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise Toast in HELL.

    Doesn't that sound more like yours?


    Wow.....Here we have a God.....who's highest priority is US rather then a megalomaniac petting his own ego.

    A HUMBLE Christ.


    A good parent gets one last word before to his children before death.

    Is it worship me or you will go to hell? Or is it please take care of each other?

    It is a piece of cake knowing who the Father is.




    You cannot love Jesus/God, do not have the capacity unless you love the brothers you do see.
    The greek says NOT ABLE. "CANNOT LOVE GOD".


    1 john 4
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    In the same way you miss most of the NT and what Jesus and the Apostles had to say you miss what I had to say, that is love is the evidence of Christ in you. I know you do not understand what that means. Until a person understands their own righteousness is as filthy rags and that they are a sinner, they cannot understand Jesus' teaching on Faith Alone.

    Ah you found another fragment from 1 John 4, wonderful! Love that verse btw. Of course I love them all though unlike some. Here is another one from that same chapter that you haven't read yet...

    "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world". (This is found in verse 3, I have them all if you would like me to send them to you)
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    God let his son die for us, so how do you price Jesus worth less then a filthy rag?

    God sets the prices, You are worth more then Jesus.

    Any righteousness that isn't God's probably isn't righteousness at all.

    The filthy rag had to do with a particular time.


    Psalm 14

    1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
    There is no one who does good.
    2The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
    To see if there are any who understand,
    Who seek after God.
    3They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
    There is no one who does good, not even one.
    4Do all the workers of wickedness not know,
    Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
    And do not call upon the Lord?
    5There they are in great dread,
    For God is with the righteous generation.


    Isaiah 64
    4For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
    Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
    Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.
    5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
    Who remembers You in Your ways.
    Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
    We continued in them a long time;
    And shall we be saved?
    6For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
    And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
    And all of us wither like a leaf,
    And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.



    Isaiah 1

    15“So when you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I will hide My eyes from you;
    Yes, even though you multiply prayers,
    I will not listen.
    Your hands are covered with blood.
    16“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
    Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight.
    Cease to do evil,
    17Learn to do good;
    Seek justice,
    Reprove the ruthless,
    Defend the orphan,
    Plead for the widow.



    James 4
    5Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: “He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us”? 6But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.” 7Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.



    One mans TRASH --> GOOD WORKS, Is another man's TREASURE-->Above Salvation.

    You need to learn to do what is right on the weight that God commands it.

    Rather then on the weight of whether it gives salvation or not.


    The Good Samaritan Still managed to do Good, That's why he is the Good Samaritan. Not a Damned Samaritan.
     
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