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Faith From The Heart...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Today I was reading a book from a well-known Baptist, whose name I shall not mention to protect the guilty, where he says that the faith that justified us when we placed it in Jesus, came from the heart.

    a. What is meant by "faith coming from the heart"?

    b. Is he saying that faith originates in the heart of a person?

    c. If this is the case, isn't this implying that we add something to our justification?

    2. I stand to be corrected at this juncture.
     
    #1 TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    the bible says the heart is decietful, i don't see faith coming from mine or anyone elses heart. faith comes from God.
     
    #2 donnA, Aug 9, 2007
  3. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Trying to give the author in question the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he is referring to Romans.

    The Word, by which we are saved, is near us...in our mouth and heart. We confess with our mouth, but believe in our heart, because with teh heart man believes unto righteousness, and witht he mouth confession is made unto salvation. If a mouth confesses but does not believe in the heart, then we have a false brother or sister.

    Even so, the opperation of these things is by Grace Alone. The faith, with which our hear believes, is a gift of God.
     
    #3 ReformedBaptist, Aug 9, 2007
  4. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I like that signature! :)
     
    #4 Dale-c, Aug 9, 2007
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    All men have the ability to have faith in something. That is what I believe the author is trying to say.
     
    #5 webdog, Aug 9, 2007
  6. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps all men have the ability to believe, but mankind is unable in and of himself to savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. THAT faith is a gift from God.
     
    #6 ReformedBaptist, Aug 9, 2007
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. But to say that this faith originates in the heart of the individual and to say that it comes from the heart are two different things.

    2. To say originate in the heart means the person somehow can do it own his own.

    3. But coming from the heart does not necessarily carry that idea. The faith can first be placed there and then exercise by the individual since the human heart is wicked to begin with.
     
    #7 TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    1. I agree. Scripture teaches that faith, saving faith as we sometimes call it, is a gift of God (originates from Him) and is given as a gift.

    2. I agree, that's why I would disagree with the statement that saving faith originates in the heart.

    3. Man's heart is indeed wicked, and his will follows his nature. In the act of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit man's will responds/reacts even as it were simultaniously as he is born anew. He has new desires, hopes, dreams. The old things have passed away and all things become new. He is not completely separated from sin, which is condemned in the flesh, but the life he now lives in the flesh, he lives by the faith of the Son of God, which was given him. Human will is not causative in salvation. It is by God's will man is ever saved.
     
    #8 ReformedBaptist, Aug 9, 2007
  9. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    I'm sorry. I thought this was going to be a Star Trek Enterprise discussion.

    Faith of The Heart

    written by Diane Warren and sung by Russell Watson

    It's been a long road
    Getting from there to here
    It's been a long time
    But my time is finally near
    And I will see my dream come alive at last,
    I will touch the sky
    And they're not gonna hold me down no more
    No, they're not gonna change my mind
    Cause I got faith of the heart
    I'm going where my heart will take me
    I got faith to believe
    I can do anything
    I got strength of the soul
    And no one's gonna bend or break me
    I can reach any star
    I got faith
    Faith of the heart...
     
    #9 Lacy Evans, Aug 9, 2007
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I think that was an attempt at humor... :confused:
     
    #10 ReformedBaptist, Aug 9, 2007
  11. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    My wife says that most people fail to find me even a fraction as funny as I find myself.
     
    #11 Lacy Evans, Aug 9, 2007
  12. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Don't worry brother, I'll still laugh at your corny jokes.
     
    #12 James_Newman, Aug 9, 2007
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Since faith is active belief...I don't see the difference of the origination. Faith is NOT a gift from God in the way calvinists use Eph. 2:8-9. Salvation is the gift of God in that verse. Faith comes from hearing / understanding, and that (hearing/understanding) from God...not faith.
     
    #13 webdog, Aug 9, 2007
  14. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Yes, a person hears and understands the Word and produces faith out of thin air?

    2. Even Arminians have taken Eph 2:8-9 to refer to whole saving plan as a gift of God, for the context and grammar necessitate it.
     
    #14 TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since we don't know the context of the phrase, who said it, where it was said, to whom it was written, or the date, ...
    ...discerning the authors meaning is difficult (why that's the purpose of studying biblical history and practices isn't it?).

    If it was a modern speaker, the phrase may simply be idiomatic for a true faith rather than a superficial faith (which would truly be no faith at all).

    I don't think so.

    If it were the case, probably. Sounds just a bit like Lordship salvation (am I close?).

    Rob
     
    #15 Deacon, Aug 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2007
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It comes from the ability to reason together with the Lord (Isaiah).
    Some do, but it's not proper exegesis. "That" is referring back to the whole of "by grace are you saved through faith"...salvation. "That" is the gift of God...not faith.
     
    #16 webdog, Aug 9, 2007
  17. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    Ro 10:8 But what saith it? the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy HEART: that is, the word of faith, which we preach. Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD JESUS, and shalt believe in thine heart that GOD hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
     
    #17 charles_creech78, Aug 9, 2007
  18. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. You would have to reason that one out yourself.

    2. If faith is part of that, which you say is "by grace are you saved through" how can faith not be considered a gift?

    3. It's like giving me a package with three items in it, all wrapped as a gift, only to find out, that one of the items inside, is not really a gift.

    a. Was it place there by mistake?

    b. Do I have to purchase it?

    c. Was it meant for someone else?
     
    #18 TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    The faith in the heart, Where did it come from?
     
    #19 TCGreek, Aug 9, 2007
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Why when the Lord says I can reason with Him?
    Through is the means...not the gift.
    Your analogy would be more accurate by stating how the basket go there (through the mail). Is the means the gift, also...or is the basket the gift?
     
    #20 webdog, Aug 9, 2007
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