Faith "not of yourselves" Eph 2:8

In your effort to avoid the point made you are derailing your own argument and simply going in circles.

The point remains that both the SAVED TODAY and the PERFECT SINLESS examples of the past all BELIEVE that they are JUST FINE as they are!! What they ALL DOUBT is the consequence of falling.

They all seem to think that they can go into error and "Still be ok". (Sounds a bit like OSAS don't it?!)

You simply spin the point to some unclaimed ground about "they all believed they would die and chose death". But in your OWN POINT of BELIEF you stated that the BELIEF was in the LIFE given - not BELIEF in the consequence of falling! In other words you MADE the case for this point in your OWN argument!

There you clearly show that "what is known" is NOT the risk and consequence of falling - it is the fact of being saved! That you are "ok". The SAME fact all the sinless people and angels in the example share in common!

Now you are simply trying to cover the point up so that we all get to go back and reherse it again as we uncover what has already been said by you and by others!

Why do that??

In Christ,

Bob

 

I am very glad you will continue to keep on "keeping on" -- but "again" you did not address the point. So the point remains.

"here it is again"

The list given all have in common the same thing that you "claimed" to know as fact which is that ALL those in the list ALSO knew they were "ok" as fact!

This simply can not be denied in the case of the unfallen sinless angels, Adam, Eve etc.

YET they STILL chose sin "thinking" that they would still be "ok".

Sounds like OSAS -

Your own "claim" was that knowing they are OK - they would never engage in risky choices that would cause the loss of what they had. My point has been that they (like the OSAS people) did not consider the true nature of the risk when they took it. Though God stated it clearly!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Faith.

FA </font>[/QUOTE]FA, define faith as you understand it

 

Steaver:

Pretty arrogant of you.
Realize that that the spirit of God is complete but that does not mean you are. We can greive the spirit. You are not yet mature in Christ.

They were in the Presence of Them. They named Gods creation. They Heard is voice. You are just a recipient of what their live (both good and bad) set in place through Them. They had More evidence of Them than you do and yet wanted something else.

1. Its' not they never new God, but God makes them responsable for there own sin when they leave him. So yes they are worse of now than in the beginning. Read Below and maybe you will be willing to see Gods love and consistant charactor.


The problem that you have here is that Jesus taught from the old testament and learned from it as well. So IF you are humble enough to submit to God in the Old testament without placing your "NT twist" on things you can see that God never changed.

Isaiah 64:5
You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved?


Ezekiel 33:

12 "Therefore, son of man, say to your countrymen, 'The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.' 13 If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. 14 And if I say to the wicked man, 'You will surely die,' but he then turns away from his sin and does what is just and right- 15 if he gives back what he took in pledge for a loan, returns what he has stolen, follows the decrees that give life, and does no evil, he will surely live; he will not die. 16 None of the sins he has committed will be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he will surely live.


UNDER NO COVENANT DOES GOD NOT EXPECT CONTINUED REPENTANCE.

Just think about it.

Personally I don't think your getting sharper in the proper understanding by not being willing to accept ALL of the teachings in the bible, versus just the one that may seem to support your understanding

 

Steaver - you seem to have forgotten your post even though I "repost it for you" again -

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In your effort to avoid the point made you are derailing your own argument and simply going in circles.

The point remains that both the SAVED TODAY and the PERFECT SINLESS examples of the past all BELIEVE that they are JUST FINE as they are!! What they ALL DOUBT is the consequence of falling.

They all seem to think that they can go into error and "Still be ok". (Sounds a bit like OSAS don't it?!)

You simply spin the point to some unclaimed ground about "they all believed they would die and chose death". But in your OWN POINT of BELIEF you stated that the BELIEF was in the LIFE given - not BELIEF in the consequence of falling! In other words you MADE the case for this point in your OWN argument!


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Steaver said -
This is why I cannot understand those who say you must "keep on believing". How can I not? Jesus Christ is always in me.

Isn't Christian faith based on knowledge of fact? God given facts upon the heart? This is why I don't understand how one could begin with God's knowledge, accept it through re-birth, and then say "oh I don't believe that anymore".

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There you clearly show that "what is known" is NOT the risk and consequence of falling - it is the fact of being saved! That you are "ok". The SAME fact all the sinless people and angels in the example share in common!

Now you are simply trying to cover the point up so that we all get to go back and reherse it again as we uncover what has already been said by you and by others!

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Do you see the part about where it says "Steaver" --?? That is you.

In Christ,

Bob

 

True enough - I wish we agreed on that point but you seem inclined to reject it.

JUST as God WARNED EVE and SHE did not believe the warning - so God WARNS His followers in Matt 18 "SO shall My Father do to each one of you IF"

JUST as EVE thought she was ok and did not need to worry about God's Warning - SOOO the OSAS group thinks THEY are ok and THEY don't need to be bothered with Christs Words in Matt 18!!

(How many times do I need to say this same thing??)

 

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There you clearly show that "what is known" is NOT the risk and consequence of falling - it is the fact of being saved! That you are "ok". The SAME fact all the sinless people and angels in the example share in common!

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Indeed rather than being a sinner still bound to their sinful nature yet redeemed - they were prefect sinless holy and dwelling fully in the presence of God not seeing in a glass darkly - but seeing face to face. Not removed but in FULL fellowship!

They existed in the state WE LONG for in that age to come!!

What they "KNEW" was that they were fully accepted by God -- fully His children - fully in harmony with their Creator!

KNOWING they were JUST FINE as they were - they still underestimated the RISK of falling by ignoring the words of their Creator and Lord.

In Christ,

Bob