1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Federal Judge Blocks the CV Jab mandate for Fed Contractors

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Two Wings, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unless it is ordered that federal contractors cannot mandate a vaccine, it does not make a difference.
     
  3. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    sure it does ... now business managers have to own up to their own idiocy. They can't blame it on POTUS' unconstitutional act. That's gonna put a big damper on that bandwagon. there were only a relative few businesses who waded into that cess pool of jab mandate before POTUS' misguided September decree.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As it should be.

    There are a couple of issues. First, most federal contract companies mandated the vaccine without being forced to do so by the federal government.

    Second, while I believe this was a preemptive decision a federal requirement was not the reason given in many (most?) cases. The reasons given corresponded with the federal governments reasoning, but that it was mandated was not the primary explanation.

    Third, consider the conclusion -

    "This is not a case about whether vaccines are effective. They are,” Van Tatenhove wrote. “Nor is this a case about whether the government, at some level, and in some circumstances, can require citizens to obtain vaccines. It can.

    “The question presented here is narrow,” he said. “Can the president use congressionally delegated authority to manage the federal procurement of goods and services to impose vaccines on the employees of federal contractors and subcontractors? In all likelihood, the answer to that question is no.”

    The necessity for a federal contract company to mandate a vaccine may still exist even if not federally mandated.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Two Wings ,

    Here is what I mean -

    My site has a little over 11,000 federal contract employees. They mandated the vaccine and lost about 200 employees (over half were retiring anyway and their replacements were hired last Spring). The entire workforce here has been vaccinated.

    Oak Ridge and Los Alamos did the same. This was prior to the federal mandate taking place.

    Federal contracts (large companies, anyway) are very competitive. Most of the employees remain the same with contract changes but management changes. No federal contract company wants to appear less appealing or less competitive than another company (especially if the contract is coming for renewal).

    As long as the vaccines appear or are accepted as effective in preventing a workplace hazard that could be a liability in performing the mission of the contract (and as long as it remains legal for a company to require a vaccine) I believe temporarily blocking the Executive Order requiring federal contractors to be vaccinated (which is government overreach) is essentially meaningless.

    The exception may be companies simply providing a service (like the Sheriff's Dept mentioned in the article).

    So I disagree if your conclusion that only a relatively few federal contract companies will require vaccines. I believe most will because the controlling factor is money, which means out competing your competitors.
     
  6. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you may be correct in your prediction but there's no medical basis to mandate this cv vax from any entity .... there is a political one though.

    April '20, the airlines were making informational tv spots about the purity of the air in the aircraft. There was a lot of harumping by various players. You know where the one place where the density of people is as high as an airliner and has yet to be traced as a source of cv spread?

    yup. airline cabins. weird, huh? Especially given there have certainly been infected folks traveling.

    the reason is because the air doesn't stay in the cabin very long. you don't feel a 25 mph breeze, but that air is being exchanged under 8 PSI. it's literally "trying" to blow itself apart. The air you're getting has been compressed and heated to several hundred degrees. It's STERILE. (now it can be subject to fumes which is another topic ... but it's not chock full of virus)

    So ... mandating cv jabs to ride an airplane just reveals complete ignorance and bowing to feelings in a very science-based operation. Lift must be greater than weight, and thrust must be greater than drag ... or there's no aviating. Doesn't matter HOW someone feels about it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is a medical basis (depending on what medical testimony you believe).

    Politically the DNC and GOP are pretty much unified about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine, while differing about mandates and implications regarding individual freedoms.

    In the end what will determine the direction is the official narrative (whether right or wrong).
     
  8. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm inclined to believe those who have the time to do their own research, are not financially benefitting by this movement to jab everyone, are not gaining more authority by implementing these mandates, and actually have a larger perspective on the implications going forward.
    don't care what the political parties think. they have too much control over our government already.

    with this I agree ... and I note the official narrative is grossly void of real science. The kind which doesn't pompously state "follow the science" which really means "what I told you to do."

    mass deploying these cv vaxes is going to haunt us all. Some of us know it now ... others will need to see the cataclysmic effects of losing our young men; law enforcement, fire, military ... and some won't even believe it's happening.

    Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with this, however there ate just as many (probably more) who have done this and concluded that the vaccines are effective against covid.

    It is an error to assume that scientists who have devoted their lives to studying viruses and developing vaccines are only in it for the money simply because they conclude the vaccines are effective or they are government employees. In fact, most scientists employed by the government make less than non-government employees. If anything, the trusted scientists are those who chose to work for the CDC or FDA rather than the civilian sector.
     
  10. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yet the pandemic rages on despite 70% vaccinated and untold over that recovered.


    its' not "simply because" the declaration is one or the other ... it's because who is their grubsteak and what outcome do THEY want? Does facilitating the continuation of the pandemic enhance their standing/value ... or decrease it.

    I'm not castigating ALL physicians who support mass jabbing ... but there are plenty who are culpable of wrongdoing; swayed by politics and dollars. Period. The NAIAD director is numero uno. (your) PCP? I doubt it, but somewhere between the given PCP and the NAIAD director is a line and most if not all above it ... are untrustworthy on this item.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with you about the "line". We have scientists, like Fauci, who become politicians. When I say I believe the experts, or the scientists, are not controlled by politics or greed I am speaking of those doing the work, doing the studies, developing the vaccines.

    The pandemic will rage on as long as varients remain a concern. The unvaccinated are still too large a group (worldwide). We will continue to see varients coming out of the uncaccinated areas and spreading to the US.

    I am not sure why people suggest the vaccines have not been effective. The original sars-cov-2 is much less a concern today, which indicates otherwise.

    The question is how effective vaccines will be with varients. Like with immunity gained from being infected with the virus, it appears effectiveness decreases.

    I see two methods of immunity - get covid or get a vaccine. Both are less effective with time and against varients. But the vaccine is safer than the virus.
     
  12. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    this completely ignores the recovered which is a far greater number than the cv vaxed and as some scientific studies have shown, to be a factor of 27 times greater than the cv vax protection. IDK how they landed on 27 ... I've even tried using my occult decoder for some numerology reference and am missing. :p

    but that's what has been reported by ... scientists ... who aren't getting paid by NAIAD; e.g. you and me.

    ah ... next time I'll read your entire post before replying! :p

    yes and they are not equal in their "protection." (as we've now redefined the term "vaccine" for the cv vax) Natural immunity is far superior. With every week or two (the period of exposure/contraction/recovery) more and more people are getting natural immunity.

    I think this omicron thing is an even greater degree of exaggeration. I can't deny it exists, but sounding alarms is suspicious.

    POTUS is apparently about apply some very strict travel restrictions ... after omicron is already in the States ... and has not only done nothing to stop this deluge of illegal immigration since he took office, he's aggravated the problem. Illegal immigration ... bringing whatever variant of covid with 'em. How does this pass the smell test?

    Which gives greater evidence to the fact this entire ordeal was orchestrated. The 10% truth is that there is a virus ... the rest of it is manipulated & exaggerated. Which means ... it's time to seriously consider the implications of following instructions based in lies and political agendas.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,956
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are We Entering Into an Era of Pathologized Totalitarianism?

    Most probably won’t read this, but for those who do, I highly recommend also reading the comments. This is the big picture. They keep us busy with every new iteration while they march on. Don’t lose sight of the end game, or you will lose everything. This is not about ‘covid’, as anyone who looks past their nose can see.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  14. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    well, a major minus is the requirement to get on another blaster list to read it ... but I'm trying.
     
  15. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    for those who'd rather not subscribe to another blaster list
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,956
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Two Wings-thought you might enjoy this

    A5781D32-3E04-4607-9469-11C26DA28F32.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Studies that have been posted here show immunity via vaccine is more effective than immunity via virus. But this was with the Delta varient. Who knows with this one. May not even be a bad vartient.


    The term "natural immunity" is very misleading. "Natural immunity" via what? A man-made virus or a man-made vaccine?
     
  18. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    224
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think its widely understood “natural immunity” in the context of the coronavirus/covid disease ... means having contracted covid19 and recovered from it.

    Doing this provides 27 times better immunity than the cv vaxers alone ... that’s what the previously referenced study (from Israel IIRC) demonstrated.

    This stands to reason given the natural immunity is gained with response to the entire virus.

    Whatever select immunity is gained from the cv vax is very exclusive because it’s based upon one part of the overall virus.


    Let’s not overlook that in the process of producting th spike protein in such volume, one may be 99.99% immune to CV19 .... but can also have response to other pathogens restricted ... or better ... the communication to field a response to a pathogen restricted due to the “noise” of the billions of spike proteins.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,956
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    3011FC0D-37CB-453C-A63B-BAFAF46979B7.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    28,060
    Likes Received:
    2,970
    Faith:
    Baptist
    With the Delta varient vaccines have proven a superior form of immunity than "natural immunity" from the initial virus.
     
Loading...