Feet Washing.

This is where you misunderstand what I have said and what Jesus commanded. I summit unto you that there is no difference in today's church and the first century, for Jesus commanded us to do so, in the church to show our love one to another. God said I "change not".

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

You make a fleshly thing out of it, when it is a spiritual thing. You make the same mistake as others who try to make spiritual things natural. All you have to do is read the scripture and Jesus saying "ye know not what I do, but ye shall know hereafter". The did know hereafter, for it was practiced since the 1st century, but over the years men have become proud.

BBob,

 

Dear Brother Bob, in an earlier post you had quoted early church fathers along with this passage.

1 Timothy 5

9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,
10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.​

From that I had the impression that you were trying to establish from this verse (along with the First Lord's Supper passages) that the practice is an ordinance. I was simply pointing out that 1 Timothy 5 9-10 can not be used for this unless those other things are also included as ordinances.​

Personally, I have always felt that Philippians 2 is a parallel (in priniciple) to the account of the Lord's Supper and the feet washing of the apostles.​

Philippians 2
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​

HankD​

 

I doubt if you believe this yourself. Can you raise the dead, even though we worship the same God. Do you have the same power as the Apostles. I do not claim to be like the Apostles, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind. If you can do these things, we need you over in my part of the country. The Apostles were able to do much more than you and I. IMO

BBob, :jesus:

 

I simply was saying that the washing of feet, had also been commanded of the Lord. The other things were good works and to leave them not undone. I do believe that feetwashing was commanded of the Lord and we do keep it up until He comes back, along with the Last Supper. Why keep the Last Supper and not the rest of it, like washing each others feet. It fulfills the scripture to Love one another as I have loved you. He loved them enough to wash their feet, why should we be any better than the lord Himself? IMO

BBob, :jesus:

 

There is a huge differeence in the cultural settiung of the church today then in the first century. If it were no differeence then why do you not wear a cloak and wear sandals while oyu walk on streets that re dusty where animals walk.

Serving is not at all a fleshly thing. Whatever we do we are to do to the glory of God. It does has a practical component but it also has an eternal value.

Mt 10:42 "And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."

Your "spiritual" theology would not ever agree with what James teaches.

James 2:14-18, "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

 

I am saying you are trying to make the feet washing a fleshly thing and leave out the spiritual.

First I am sure they do still wear sandals over there in Israel and Palestine.

I do not understand the part were my theology would not fit with James. I believe in works as much as anyone. Man do I believe in works. I also believe in faith and without it, you can not even know who God is, for unto ever man is dealt the measure of faith.

Bro; We are being accused of adding another ordinance but in fact, we are saying that the "feet washing" is a part of the Last Supper. It was the final act the Lord did with the Apostles, first His blood and His body and then His everlasting "love" that He would humble Himself enough to wash His disciples feet. It is a "complete" act of Love and that is why He said, "ye know not now what I do, but ye shall know hereafter, and all these scripture came back to their minds after He arose from the grave.

Jhn 13:12¶So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

He sat back down at the same table where they had taken the bread and fruit of the vine. It was all one act!


Some people do not consider the "feet washing" as a part of the Last Supper, but I wonder where they get their separation?

Some who do not believe its to the church today, still they will wash each others feet from time to time. Wonder why, if its not part of the Last Supper? I will tell you what I think, they begin to wonder, maybe we should wash feet and they will do it once in a while, so they can say to themselves, well if the Lord commanded it, then we complied.

The practice of your church was established long before you came, so you follow their instructions. Well, in the beginning, feet washing was a part of the Last Supper.

BBob, :jesus:

 

Just a drive-by here...

Here is why I seperate it, It does not show the Lords death until he comes...
Baptism yes.. it shows the Death Burial and Resurrection
Communion, Yes.. it shows the Death Burial and Resurrection
Footwashing, No... so that is why I seperate it...

That, plus Paul never gave the instructions for it in his passage explaining how to have communion... Surely if the first century church was doing it, then Paul would have included it in his directions to the church on how to have communion. But it is not there.

Please show me where Paul gives us instructions how to wash feet during communion...

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
(23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread:
(24) And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
(25) After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.
(26) For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
(27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
(28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
(29) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
(30) For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
(31) For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
(32) But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(33) Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
(34) And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
And just because a widow was to "washed feet" does not mean it was done in a church service. Washing feet was a common act of hospitality in that culture. It was an act of service in those days the way we would offer someone a place to wash up when they visit with us for dinner.

It was an act of service, not a religious ritual...
And just because the other church fathers mention it, does not mean it is supposed to be done... remember, the seeds of church hierarchy was established within the early church fathers... So should we also have Bishops that oversee church pastors...


If a church wants to do it, fine with me.. but don't call it an ordinance. That belittles Baptism and Communion..

But if someone ever needs their feet washed, I will be happy too.. :thumbs:
Christ met a NEED of the disciples that night.
WE should be meeting needs.... not following hollow traditions.

No one has answered me this yet either... When you go to a feet washing service, do you wash your feet before you go so you won't be embarrassed? Or do you wear sandals and walk through mud the way the disciples would have.

If you are going to do it, do it right...
But I forgot... there are no instructions in the NT for how it is to be done...

Another reason it should not be an ordinance.

 

Why was it just the saints feet?

You do not consider the Gospels a part of the NT? Also, do you not receive the instructions given of the Lord Himself on how to wash your brothers feet??

Why do I need to show you where Paul did it, when I have already shown you where Jesus did it. Does it not matter to you what Jesus did? It was Paul who spoke of the requirements of a true widow and that includes the washing of the Saints feet. That was after Jesus had left and shows that it still continued in the Church, for Paul was instructing the church on how to take care of the widows of the church. You don't accept it because it does not fit your idea of the Last Supper. This widow was a church member and Paul was instructing the church, what else do you want?

The Last Supper, they took the bread and the fruit of the vine, arose and Jesus washed their feet and then sat back down at the same table. The washing of the feet was a continueing of Jesus showing His love for His disciples and then it ended. Jesus said ye shall know hereafter.
Would you please what "they shall know hereafter, concerning the washing of feet". It was very important to the Lord.
You keep wanting for Paul to show us, of which he did with the widow, but Jesus Himself showed us and said "ye shall know hereafter". What! would they know hereafter.

The washing of the feet was a part of that last supper of the passover. You can skip it if you want and I hope you feel free to do so. I do not feel free to not carry out a commandment of the Lord, that He has given us an example that we should follow.

Your argument that it was something practiced in that day, is as Obams says, entered the "silly" stage. Who in the world would eat supper and then rise and wash manure from their feet. I for one believe the Lord was much smarter than that.

Feet washing is a part of the Communion.

John Calvin;
As the Holy Spirit operates in the bread and wine, and God's people partake of those elements in faith, a great miracle takes place. Calvin comments, "I conclude that Christ's body is really truly given to us in the Supper, to be wholesome food for our souls." "In his Sacred Supper [Christ] bids me take, eat, and drink his body and blood under the symbols of bread and wine. I do not doubt that he himself truly presents them, and that I receive them."
Furthermore, for Calvin, the Eucharist is a key component of sanctification. Zwingli and his followers fail to see anything special about the Lord's Supper. The same blessing and grace one receives in Holy Communion can be received by hearing a sermon about Jesus' death on the cross. With this notion, why celebrate the sacrament when you can accomplish the same thing through preaching? Thus, a low sacramental view leads to infrequent observances. Calvin was alarmed by the logical consequences of the Zwinglian concept. The Church and her worship would inevitably suffer spiritual anemia.
What role does the Eucharist play in sanctification? You are not a whole and perfect Christian as soon as you are baptized. Baptism is only the initiation into communion with Christ. A lifelong process of growth in Christ-like character and spiritual maturation follows baptism. The Lord's Supper is one of those main ingredients that allows you to increase in sanctification. It is the Eucharist that nourishes you, and sustains your communion with Christ, and leads you to praise and magnify Him more fully.
For Calvin, the primary benefit of the Lord's Supper is that it strengthens our faith and our union with Christ, but he did not ignore the horizontal dimensions of the sacrament. The Eucharist gradually produces a bond of love between believers. Here we find a link between the foot-washing ritual Jesus practiced on Maundy Thursday and the Eucharist that He instituted. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples to show them the necessity of loving one another with small acts of service. The Eucharist is what motivates you and me to perform those sacrificial actions. He remarks,
"For there could be no sharper goad to arouse mutual love among us than when Christ, giving himself to us, not only invites us by his example to pledge and give ourselves to one another, but as he makes himself common to all, so also makes all one in himself."

BBob, :jesus:

 

I am unable to recall where Jesus gave specific instructions on how to wash feet. Could you point out where that would be?

 

I don't think anyone who does feet washing calls it an ordinance, TinyTim.
You are right, there are two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper.
And feet washing, if I understand it correctly, is an INSEPARABLE part of the ordinance of the Lord's Supper.
Contrary to what you said in an earlier post (was it you ?), the modern position is NOT doing feet washing.
Brother Robert Vaughn has done an in-depth study of this, among Missionary Baptists (not Primitive Baptists), and is coming out soon with a book.
I hope to be able to buy one when it comes out, for a better understanding of this wonderful, blessed practice which has never failed to touch me with the love of my fellow Primitive Baptists.

 

You are correct Pinoy............:jesus:

BBob,

 

Here are the instructions gb03433:

John 13:

4: He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5: After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6: Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7: Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8: Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9: Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10: Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11: For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12: So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13: Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14: If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15: For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17: If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

BBob, :jesus:

 

With that I would have no problem...

So there are no seperate services apart from Communion?
Growing up, I thought there was a church in our community that had it seperate from communion.

As long as it is not a seperate ordinance, it takes on a new light.

We then move from discussing it as an ordinance to an element of communion... which some may have been discussing all along, and I have been too dense to get it!! :thumbs:

So, if it is an element of communion... and I think we can all agree to call it this.... then why was it missing when Paul described how to have communion to the Corinthians?

I still fail to see how it points toward the death of Christ. Which is clearly what Paul said communion does in this verse...
1 Corinthians 11:26
(26) For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 

Feet Washing

John Ch 13 verses 13&14 Ye call me Master and Lord; and ye say well; for so I am, If I then, your Lord and Master have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

For anyone to imply that Jesus washed their feet because they were dirty is very mistaken, verse 10 says Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit; and ye are clean, but not all. verse 11. For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. Even though he washed Judas feet.

IMHO when i kneel to wash my brothers feet, i think of his sorrows that he has faced, the dust on his feet not natural dust but the burdens of the life a christian. and as i bow before him, i'm willing to share his burden and humble myself to prove it. remember what the first Baptist preacher told Jesus , I'm not worthy to unlose your shoe. If someone was sick in the hospital we may bath him and thats good but when we wash feet in the church it is a time when we humble ourselves in such a way that cannot be described by the natural tougue. One has to expierence it for themselves. finally 1 peter Ch 5 verse 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility; for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

 

Well Bro Tim; maybe we be alright then, we just needed pinoy to say the right words...........:thumbs:

BBob,

 

Thanks Pinoy!!!

NOW that that is settled, what lessons do you learn from washing another man's feet...

I will pass on something my School of Christian Studies teacher shared with us Thursday night...

When he was in seminary, they had a feet washing ceremony one day, and he knelt to wash a student's feet... this student was from Japan, and my instructor noted that his foot was boxed shape.. and realized that the reason it was, was that while this young Japanese man was growing up in Japan, he must have wore shoes too small for him...

But even though he was poor, God still used him, called him to ministry, provided a way for him to be schooled in America.

My instructor said after he washed his feet, it was his turn to have his feet washed, and there standing, ready to wash his feet, was the dean of the Seminary... he commented he felt like Peter... NO not my feet.

 

Sometimes they have only one leg and foot.

Sometimes they can not kneel down, so we sit a pan of water in the seat with him and wash his feet, Then we will also, sit on the seat and put our feet in the pan and let him wash ours. It really is a humble time. The scripture says after it is over, then they go out singing. So, at the end. We get a song and as we sing, we hug and go out. I have never taken it with a man with no feet, but sure some on here have. If I did, I would wash his hands I guess.

BBob, raying:

 

FOOT
<foot> ([lg,r,, reghel], [lsor]q, qarcol] (only twice in parallel passages: 2 Samuel 22:37; Psalm 18:36, where it probably means ankle); [pou>v, pous]): The dusty roads of Palestine and other eastern lands make a much greater care of the feet necessary than we are accustomed to bestow upon them. The absence of socks or stockings, the use of sandals and low shoes rather than boots and, to an even greater degree, the frequent habit of walking barefoot make it necessary to wash the feet repeatedly every day. This is always done when entering the house, especially the better upper rooms which are usually carpeted. It is a common dictate of good
manners to perform this duty to a visitor, either personally or through a servant; at least water for washing has to be presented (Genesis 18:4; Luke 7:44). This has therefore become almost synonymous with the bestowal of hospitality (1 Timothy 5:10). At an early date this service
was considered one of the lowest tasks of servants (1 Samuel 25:41), probably because the youngest and least trained servants were charged with the task, or because of the idea of defilement connected with the foot. It was, for the same reason, if rendered voluntarily, a service which betokened complete devotion. Jesus taught the greatest lesson of humility by performing this humble service to His disciples (John 13:4-15). Theundoing of the latchets or leather thongs of the sandals (Mark 1:7; Luke 3:16; John 1:27) seems to refer to the same menial duty.

Often the feet and shoes were dusted on the highway, as is being done in the Orient to this day, but if it were done in an ostentatious manner in the presence of a person or a community who had refused hospitality to a stranger, it was understood in the same sense in which the cutting in two of the tablecloth was considered in the days of knighthood: it meant rejection
and separation (Matthew 10:14; Acts 13:51). The roads of the desert were not only dusty but rough, and the wanderer was almost sure to ruin his ill-made shoes and wound his weary feet. A
special providence of God protected the children of Israel from this experience during the long journey through the wilderness. “Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years” (Deuteronomy 8:4; 29:5).

In the house shoes and sandals were never worn; even the most delicate would put on shoes only when going out (Deuteronomy 28:56). The shoes were left outside of the house or in a vestibule. This was especially done in the house of God and at the time of prayer, for whenever or wherever that might be, the law was: “Put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground” (Exodus 3:5; Joshua 5:15; Acts 7:33). This custom still prevails among the Moslems of our day. Probably it was the idea of defilement through contact with the common ground which gave rise to its moral application by the Preacher, “Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God” (Ecclesiastes 5:1 (Hebrew 4:17)).
Nakedness of the feet in public, especially among the wealthier classes, who used to wear shoes or sandals, was a token of mourning (Ezekiel 24:17 and probably also Jeremiah 2:25 and Isaiah 20:2-4). A peculiar ceremony is referred to in Deuteronomy 25:9,10, whereby a brother-in-law, who refused to perform his duty under the Levirate law, was publicly put to shame. “And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.” See also Ruth 4:7,8.

Numerous are the phrases in which the word “foot” or “feet” is used in Biblical language. “To cover the feet” (1 Samuel 24:3) is synonymous with obeying a call of Nature. “To speak with the feet” is expressive of the eloquence of abusive and obscene gesticulation among oriental people,
where hands, eyes and feet are able to express much without the use of words (Proverbs 6:13). “To sit at the feet,” means to occupy the place of a learner (Deuteronomy 33:3; Luke 10:39; Acts 22:3). Vanquished enemies had to submit to being trodden upon by the conqueror (a ceremony often represented on Egyptian monuments; Joshua 10:24; Psalm 8:6; 110:1; compare Isaiah 49:23). James warns against an undue humiliation of those who join us in the service of God, even though they be poor or mean-looking, by bidding them to take a lowly place at the feet of the richer members of the congregation (Jas 2:3). We read of dying Jacob that “he gathered up his feet into the bed,” for he had evidently used his bed as a couch, on which he had been seated while delivering his charge to his several sons (Genesis 49:33). “Foot” or “feet” is sometimes used euphemistically for the genitals (Deuteronomy 28:57; Ezekiel16:25). In Deuteronomy 11:10 an interesting reference is made to some Egyptian mode of irrigating the fields, `the watering with the foot,’ which mode would be unnecessary in the promised land of Canaan which “drinketh water of the rain of heaven.” It is, however, uncertain whether
this refers to the water-wheels worked by a treadmill arrangement or whether reference is made to the many tributary channels, which, according to representations on the Egyptian monuments, intersected the gardens and fields and which could be stopped or opened by placing or removing a piece of sod at the mouth of the channel. This was usually done with the foot. Frequently we find references to the foot in expressions connected with journeyings and pilgrimages, which formed so large a part in the experiences of Israel, e.g. Psalm 91:12, “lest thou dash thy foot against a stone”; 94:18, “My foot slippeth”; 121:3, “He will not suffer thy foot to
be moved,” and many more. Often the reference is to the “walk,” i.e. the moral conduct of life (Psalm 73:2; Job 23:11; 31:5).

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

 

You greatly do errr on the reason he washed there feet. Mybe God will bless you some day on the reason he did it.

 

I think from that particular passage Paul was chastizing them for perverting the bread and wine, which wouldn't have to include the washing of feet.
Historically speaking, it was understood by everyone how to wash feet, right? But when you do look at the passage talking about the widow that washed the saints feet, why wasn't it just everyone's feet if it were because they were dirty? Why only the saints?

David