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Final and Only Authority

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by utilyan, Nov 23, 2017.

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  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    This is how I know this debate will sound like.

    Imagine you have a WHITE car and some man comes and says it is BLUE.

    You ask him to show you where it is blue, So he proceeds to tell you a car must have four wheels, an engine, when you turn the key it turns on the car, and when you step on the gas it moves around, so therefore the car is BLUE!

    He will emphasize all that is True to obscure his falsehood which is the car is blue when it clearly is not.

    Our Protestant and Reformed brethren swear there is a verse in the bible that says the BIBLE is the FINAL AND ONLY AUTHORITY.

    Show us this VERSE.

    We are not asking for verses that show the bible is TRUE(the car has an engine) or that it is important(the car has four wheels), We indeed believe the bible is true and important.

    What we want is the verse that says the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY AUTHORITY(the car is blue)

    We agree the bible is God breathed(you turn the key to start the car) and that the bible is PROFITABLE and helpful(stepping on the gas moves the car)

    We however want to see this VERSE they claim exists, that the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority(the car is blue).

    Show us this verse or admit it is unbiblical.
     
    #1 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus Himself ONLY accept the scriptures as authority in debates with pharisees, or did he use other things also?
    When he talked with sata, did he add anything else to "it is written?"
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Nov 23, 2017
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You can't prove a negative (e.g., show us in the Bible that the Book of Mormon is not an authority). This is a logical fallacy.

    All that can be said is Scripture, and in Scripture Christ, testifies that it is the authority. What can be done, however, is to test what is said in the Book of Mormon against Scripture. If one is false then reject it. You just have to decide which to reject.

    Those who believe the Bible is God's Word and therefore the final authority have chosen Scripture. Those who believe a book, or a church, have chosen differently. What we cannot do is pretend both to be correct.
     
    #3 JonC, Nov 23, 2017
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  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I can find scripture that states the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. That the church is God breathed and is one flesh with Jesus Christ as its head.

    You can scurry about why you think scripture its the final authority, It doesn't matter that is not the question.

    We however want to see this VERSE they claim exists, that the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority(the car is blue).

    Show us the bible verse. Show us this verse or admit it is unbiblical.

    No run arounds. Tell us there is NO VERSE or SHOW US THE VERSE.
     
    #4 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Jesus added commandments, gave new ones, and plenty of you heard it said, but I say on to you's.

    In acts when the Judaisers wanted to force circumcisions they would have been correct on scripture alone.

    All these things don't matter, however. Because here is a case where a man-made tradition is adding beyond to what is written. Someone is claiming a FAKE rule as being stated in scripture.

    You have the easiest job in the world to show us the verse.

    We want to see this VERSE they claim exists, that the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority(the car is blue).

    We know the bible is very very true, the bible is very very important and the bible is very very right. That is not being debated.

    What is being debated is the FAKE RULE that the bible is the FINAL and ONLY authority.

    Show us the bible verse that claims so, OR admit it is UNBIBLICAL.
     
    #5 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Why anyone thinks Sola Scriptura is true can be a very interesting conversation, THAT is not my question.

    I want you to show me this Bible verse that is claimed to exist, that specifically states the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority.

    Show us the verse or admit it is UNBIBLICAL.
     
    #6 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  7. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    It's right there between the verse about purgatory and the verse about priestly celibacy.
     
    #7 Rob_BW, Nov 23, 2017
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    As I said (already) there are passages that place authority with the Bible ( for example, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work). And of course Jesus Himself relies upon “it is written”. So I’m not going to get into a silly argument about whether or not Scripture itself God’s authority.

    BUT that isn’t what you asked, is it. You asked for proof Scripture is the only and final authority. I believe that God speaks through the congregation (through His church, His people), but also that there has to be a final authority or test for doctrine. I believe it to be Scripture as this is the only authority that is presented as God’s inspired word for teaching and correction. This is the only one Scripture offers.

    To say Scripture affirms itself as our authority but does not state it is the only one is foolishness. What you are asking is a logical fallacy (to prove what is not there).
     
    #8 JonC, Nov 23, 2017
  9. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I can nail those right away with scripture.
    You all can keep dodging people. Doesn't hide the fact that this verse claimed to exist is fake.

    Your rule is unbiblical.
     
    #9 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Maybe English is not your first language?

    "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"

    Scripture that is HELPFUL in teaching, HELPFUL in reproof, HELPFUL in correction, HELPFUL in training for good works(which oddly folks would swear loving God and neighbor is not required)

    Where does ANY of that state, Scripture is the FINAL and ONLY authority?

    Eyeballs are profitable for teaching, and so is reading comprehension.

    Which one of those words up there says FINAL, ONLY and AUTHORITY?


    I'm repeating myself!

    Why anyone thinks Sola Scriptura is true can be a very interesting conversation, THAT is not my question.

    I want you to show me this Bible verse that is claimed to exist, that specifically states the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority.

    Show us the verse or admit it is UNBIBLICAL.


    State the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free.
     
    #10 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I could RE-WRITE the above verse and scribble in REQUIRED rather then PROFITABLE.

    That scripture is REQUIRED for for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

    AND IT STILL WOULD NOT EQUATE to saying scripture is the FINAL and ONLY authority.
     
    #11 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  12. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Lol, ok.

    I just find it humorous, someone who's sect contains so much tradition that contrasts with the Bible decrying someone else's belief as unbiblical.

    You don't care that something is necessarily unbiblical. Your complaint is that someone else's beliefs go against your unbiblical traditions. Quite ironic.
     
    #12 Rob_BW, Nov 23, 2017
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I believe the 66 books of the Bible which came out of the Reformation is the final authority of God by faith.

    HankD
     
    #13 HankD, Nov 23, 2017
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I believe the bible is true, Its infallibly correct, it is absolutely important. I don't believing in adding fake rules that don't exist.

    So if the bible says YOU are the boss, then you are the boss. If the bible says traditions are important then they are. The number one tradition probably being the official list of what books make up the bible. There is no inspired holy table of contents written by Peter, Paul or any other apostles.

    You don't think purgatory is biblical, Good for you for following your good conscience. It is however biblical. Purgatory is a piece of cake.


    I didn't make the claim that there is a bible verse that says scripture is the FINAL and ONLY authority.

    Show us the verse or spit out the truth, that this fake rule is unbiblical.

    If you know the TRUTH why hide it? Tell us the truth.


    I already explained in the OP how the run around was going to go. Show us the blue car.
     
    #14 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Happy Thanks giving Hank =)

    Not to sound like a broken record.

    Why anyone thinks Sola Scriptura is true can be a very interesting conversation, THAT is not my question.

    I want you to show me this Bible verse that is claimed to exist, that specifically states the BIBLE is the FINAL and ONLY authority.

    Show us the verse or admit it is UNBIBLICAL.
     
    #15 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  16. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Do you guys want me to keep score of how many runarounds we get?

    Common now...... You say the verse exists. Piece of cake, put it down.

    If no verse exists lets settle that once and for all. NOT BIBLICAL.
     
    #16 utilyan, Nov 23, 2017
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What verse supports anything else as our supreme authority?
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Nov 23, 2017
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  18. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Ugh, straw man.

    And you complain about runarounds, which I am usually sympathetic towards, but it's germaine to this particular discussion. Any discussion about sola scriptura nd catholicism will likely end up mentioning traditions that go against biblical teaching.
     
    #18 Rob_BW, Nov 23, 2017
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  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's not there just like many articles of faith of the Catholic Church.

    Sola Scriptura is a Reformation response to the abuses of extra biblical dogma of the Catholic Church

    e.g. The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

    And Happy BIRDday to you Utiliyan :)


    HankD
     
    #19 HankD, Nov 23, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps you should read it again as once was perhaps not enough to faciliate understanding. I will help:

    Scripture - i.e. the Bible, also called the "Word of God"

    Says (it is written in those pages)

    that Scripture (Bible, Word of God)

    is "God breathed" or "inspired"

    for teaching (think instruction...how to do things)

    correction and reproof (like when a mother disciplines a child)

    So we know Scripture is an authority.

    You are asking for proof from Scripture that it is not the only authority.

    This is a logical fallacy (something people who cannot argue do on accident, fools do out of ignorance, and trolls do intentionally).

    Do you understand (comprehend, "get it")?

    This OP itself is a runaround.
     
    #20 JonC, Nov 23, 2017
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