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Flaws found in NIV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Jul 21, 2019.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Proposed Translations to eliminate ambiguity in the NIV:

    1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

    Acts 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Flaws found in the NIV (Update #6)

    1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
    2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
    3) John 1:16
    should read: For out of His fullness of grace, we all accepted, and grace became more grace.
    4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
    5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
    6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
    7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
    8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
    9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
    10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
    11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
    12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
    13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
    14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
    15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
    16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
    17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
    18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
    19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
    20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
    21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
    22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
    23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
    24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
    25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
    26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
    27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
    28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

    29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
    30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
    31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

    32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.



    Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
    Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
    Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
    Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
    Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
    Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.

    When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Natural man, sinners lost and not saved, cannot receive the Gospel message without the working of the Holy Spirit on their behalf!
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If this were true, why not cite a verse or passage.

    31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

    Obviously people without the Spirit can understand (spiritual) milk.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those were saved, not those still lost!
     
  6. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Paul never said they were without the Spirit. Read up to verse 3. This was how they were behaving. They were behaving as a lot person, he doesn't say they lack the Holy Spirit.

    οὐκ ἠδυνήθην λαλῆσαι ὑμῖν ὡς πνευματικοῖς ἀλλʼ ὡς ⸀σαρκίνοις

    "Not able to speak to you as a spiritual person, but as a fleshly person"

    He finishes the sentence by saying these "fleshly people" are "νηπίοις ἐν Χριστῷ" (infants in Christ). These are the same people he says are still "σαρκικοί ἐστε" (existing as fleshy).

    Also, not sure what translation you used, but "The Spirit" as in Holy Spirit is a paraphrase at best. Paul is addressing the nature of people, not divinity. Paul does not say "The Spirit" here.

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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You have it uite right here, and Van dead wrong, as Paul was speaking towards them as saved persons acting as if were still lost!
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And I did not say the babes in Christ were without the Spirit, I said he spoke to them as if they were without the Spirit, as if they had not yet learned from their Spirit.

    I altered the NIV rendering which changed spiritual men into people with the Spirit.
    Here is the NASB
    1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet ;another against the man logical fallacy, following by falsehood.
    Paul spoke to those with the Spirit as if they were without the Spirit, demonstrating people without the Spirit can understand spiritual milk. Just read 1 Corinthians 3:1-2!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul was adressing them as being saved, but still stuck at babes n Christ spiritual levels!
     
  11. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    But you did....post 65

    You said they were without the Spirit.

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  12. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    That is a logical fallacy.

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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As to men of flesh refers to speaking to people without the Spirit. No need to deny the obvious.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    "As to men of flesh" means Paul was speaking to the babes in Christ as if they were without the Spirit as men of flesh are without the Spirit. The passage clearly teaches men of flesh (without the Spirit) can understand spiritual milk.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No it is a logical necessity. Why would Paul say "as to men of flesh" if he was not speaking to the babes in Christ as if they did not have the Spirit or had not yet learned from the Spirit? No answer will be forthcoming.

    Total Spiritual Inability has once again been shown to be bogus doctrine.
     
  16. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Paul never says they are without the Spirit. He says they are "σαρκίνοις"

    He stay still exist as this in verse 3. If you want "σαρκίνοις" to mean without the Spirit, then your theology has left you with Christian's who are without the Spirit. How can they be infants in Christ but be without the Spirit?

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  17. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    So infants in Christ don't have "the Spirit"?

    Pauk is not talking to the lost here. You conclusion is well beyond the text.

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  18. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    You are putting words In Paul's mouth.

    He calls them this due to behavior. He is still expecting Christians to behave and understand ad Christians. He is not expecting this of people without the Spirit. Paul never brings up "without the Spirit". He says they are acting fleshly.

    For you to link the ability of Christians in sanctification with the ability of a person without Christ is a logically fallacy. Paul is not addressing that.

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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I know what the verse says.
    Why are you posting""σαρκίνοις" with providing the English translation, and the verse? Obfuscation on display.

    Your effort to deny the obvious is absurd. 1 Cor. 3:1-2 clearly teaches men without the Spirit can understand spiritual milk.

    1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
     
  20. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    So you believe σαρκίνοις = equals babies in Christ = able to understand the things of Christ and behave accordingly...you ste right so far.

    But then you lose it when you say σαρκίνοις = equals baby Christians and ability to understand = a lost persons ability. The lost person is still within the Spirit. Paul is not address those without the spirit. He does not expect the lost to behave like Christans. σαρκίνοις does not refer to the lost here. It is used to describe sinful Christians..who are christian. .w/ The Spirit.

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