OK, watched the first one, on the wife's 'puter. very kind words on how he inspired people to live a better life. No mention of him being Glenn's savior, not even close.
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Focus on the Family Pulls Interview with Glenn Beck
- Thread starter Marcia
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mcdirector
Active Member
The Mormon use of Jesus doesn't equal the biblical Jesus. The use of Jesus' name is great and effective propaganda on their part to make them look legitimate. Throwing Jesus' name around is merely a strategy Mormons have utilized to help mainstream their religion.
I'm not saying if he is or not. I'm telling people they are way out of line judging people's salvation. Marcia is saying he's going to hell, pretty much, and I think she's out of place doing it.
mcdirector said:
No doubt. I agree.
Marcia
Active Member
Bro. Curtis said:
I'm not saying if he is or not. I'm telling people they are way out of line judging people's salvation. Marcia is saying he's going to hell, pretty much, and I think she's out of place doing it.
I am not sure if or where I said that. But anyone who does not trust in the true Christ before they die goes to hell. That's not me that says that, that's God who says it. It's the same situation for a Wiccan, atheist, New Ager, JW, or thousands of other faiths people follow. Why is being Mormon better?
I don't know what you mean by "no mention of him being Glenn's savior." Beck thinks he is saved - by the Mormon Jesus, or he would not be a Mormon.
Why is it so hard for you to accept this? He's a vocal Mormon and fully agrees with them. He's happy to promote the Mormon faith on air.
Do you think he's lying? I don't think so. I believe him. He believes the Mormon faith is the right one and he's in it.
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Marcia said:
I alluded to this earlier -- Bro.Curtis:Is the reason you are denying the obvious because you appreciate Glen Beck's political stance?If so,that's very weak.You can still admire the man for some of his principled convictions unrelated to the Fath once delivered -- but he's a Mormon --plain and simple.You have to call a spade a spade at some point.And you should have discovered this about him earlier and acknowledged it.
On another note: Do you ever venture forth onto any of the other forums dealing with theology?
No. You are wrong. I am not saying anything else than we have no authority to say who is saved and who isn't. You can twist that any way you want to, but I will always say the same thing.
Why is that so hard ?
Why yes I have. I moderated in the Other Religions forum, and I fought Catholic doctrine for years, right here. I do not attend a Baptist Church right now, so I stay out of the first half of the board. But my 2.5 years of Bible classes puts me in line with what most fundie baptists preach. I try and bring my theology to the politics & news fora, because I believe we see prophecy right now. And I rarely lose a discussion on biblical issues.
My problem isn't whether or not he claims to be a mormon. And my problem isn't the obviously false teachings they support. I believe Catholicism to be in just as much, or even more grevious errer, but I will NOT say all Catholics are lost.
Why is that so hard ?
Why yes I have. I moderated in the Other Religions forum, and I fought Catholic doctrine for years, right here. I do not attend a Baptist Church right now, so I stay out of the first half of the board. But my 2.5 years of Bible classes puts me in line with what most fundie baptists preach. I try and bring my theology to the politics & news fora, because I believe we see prophecy right now. And I rarely lose a discussion on biblical issues.
My problem isn't whether or not he claims to be a mormon. And my problem isn't the obviously false teachings they support. I believe Catholicism to be in just as much, or even more grevious errer, but I will NOT say all Catholics are lost.
Marcia
Active Member
There's a huge difference between Catholics and Mormons.
The Catholics have added things and do have errors. But with the Mormons, it's much more than just errors. They have another god (gods) and Jesus. They give lip service to the Bible but use other writings for a text and believe man can become god, and that God was once a man. This is far and away much worse than Catholics. I would not put Catholics and Mormons into the same category.
We're not talking about someone here who is Mormon by default, but someone who willingly chose the Mormon faith as an adult. Therefore, he is professing the Mormon God and the Mormon Jesus, not the Biblical God and Jesus.
It is much more loving, imo, to assume such a person is lost rather than think they might be saved. Because if we assume he is lost, we might be motivated to pray for him, and some who get to meet him might witness to him.
The Catholics have added things and do have errors. But with the Mormons, it's much more than just errors. They have another god (gods) and Jesus. They give lip service to the Bible but use other writings for a text and believe man can become god, and that God was once a man. This is far and away much worse than Catholics. I would not put Catholics and Mormons into the same category.
We're not talking about someone here who is Mormon by default, but someone who willingly chose the Mormon faith as an adult. Therefore, he is professing the Mormon God and the Mormon Jesus, not the Biblical God and Jesus.
It is much more loving, imo, to assume such a person is lost rather than think they might be saved. Because if we assume he is lost, we might be motivated to pray for him, and some who get to meet him might witness to him.
windcatcher
New Member
The problem that I find in discussions of religious doctrine regarding other people is this:
Many of these religions also use the same Bible I might use..... the kjv or a more recent version/translation common to many in the Baptist church. Many of them build their studies and lessons around it. I cannot know merely by a persons' identification with the religion of Mormon, what that person thinks about Jesus or what he bases his salvation upon by the church he goes to. ...... Yes, it gives me some idea.... but it is not the religion which is saved, it is the individual and what does he think of Jesus.
What do I know about Mormons?
Nothing from personal experience which goes any deeper than what is reported in the news, some discussions with Mormon friends, or what I've read or been taught by scholars who have studied their religion and dissected it to reveal its false doctrine in the light of the scriptures and written about it in some book on cults and false teachings.
So, in other words, the closest I've ever got to knowledge or understanding of what they believe is through the primary source of discussions with a Mormon. All other knowledge is secondary and based upon the scholarship and comparisons by others, or reports from people, literature, and news.
The few Mormons which I've known, acknowledged that the book of Mormon is regarded by them as inspired just like the Bible (and I know the Bible teaches..... there aint no such animal!), but beyond that, they report that the Bible is used for most of their teachings like in Sunday School and preaching. I don't recall now what specifics I brought up in conversation but do recall that most every thing I asked them about or ask them would they explain.... was treated as a surprise to them and denial.
I do believe in the power of Gods Word to bring one to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that it has the power to bring to light the false teachings of darkness. But I am not entirely convinced that everyone who goes to a church and participates in its activities, is throughly informed of all its doctrines, nor has recognized those areas which could be set at contrast with the Bible to question them nor that their membership means that they have embraced those teachings.
The devil takes truth and distorts it to ensnare. But the Bible is the word of God and casts its light upon everything it touches and the darkness cannot fight against it. So, where the Bible is used, and where the Bible draws some to read it and depend upon its word, if it does not make a person conscious of false teachings.... it may act as a shield, like an umbrella in the rain.... preventing the absorption and embrace of false teachings.
I still hold fast to my understanding..... that I cannot judge the salvation of an individual. I may question it but I cannot judge it. Whatever I do question is also dependant upon the testimony which proceeds from that person's own confession. It is from the abundance of the heart which a person speaks.... so if his confession differs little from my understanding and knowledge of the word, then I may have concern for his association with that which is meant to be supportive but which is, in fact according to my own understanding, a false doctrine. While I may judge that association, I cannot judge his own salvation which is totally dependant on the relationship between him and God.
Many of these religions also use the same Bible I might use..... the kjv or a more recent version/translation common to many in the Baptist church. Many of them build their studies and lessons around it. I cannot know merely by a persons' identification with the religion of Mormon, what that person thinks about Jesus or what he bases his salvation upon by the church he goes to. ...... Yes, it gives me some idea.... but it is not the religion which is saved, it is the individual and what does he think of Jesus.
What do I know about Mormons?
Nothing from personal experience which goes any deeper than what is reported in the news, some discussions with Mormon friends, or what I've read or been taught by scholars who have studied their religion and dissected it to reveal its false doctrine in the light of the scriptures and written about it in some book on cults and false teachings.
So, in other words, the closest I've ever got to knowledge or understanding of what they believe is through the primary source of discussions with a Mormon. All other knowledge is secondary and based upon the scholarship and comparisons by others, or reports from people, literature, and news.
The few Mormons which I've known, acknowledged that the book of Mormon is regarded by them as inspired just like the Bible (and I know the Bible teaches..... there aint no such animal!), but beyond that, they report that the Bible is used for most of their teachings like in Sunday School and preaching. I don't recall now what specifics I brought up in conversation but do recall that most every thing I asked them about or ask them would they explain.... was treated as a surprise to them and denial.
I do believe in the power of Gods Word to bring one to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that it has the power to bring to light the false teachings of darkness. But I am not entirely convinced that everyone who goes to a church and participates in its activities, is throughly informed of all its doctrines, nor has recognized those areas which could be set at contrast with the Bible to question them nor that their membership means that they have embraced those teachings.
The devil takes truth and distorts it to ensnare. But the Bible is the word of God and casts its light upon everything it touches and the darkness cannot fight against it. So, where the Bible is used, and where the Bible draws some to read it and depend upon its word, if it does not make a person conscious of false teachings.... it may act as a shield, like an umbrella in the rain.... preventing the absorption and embrace of false teachings.
I still hold fast to my understanding..... that I cannot judge the salvation of an individual. I may question it but I cannot judge it. Whatever I do question is also dependant upon the testimony which proceeds from that person's own confession. It is from the abundance of the heart which a person speaks.... so if his confession differs little from my understanding and knowledge of the word, then I may have concern for his association with that which is meant to be supportive but which is, in fact according to my own understanding, a false doctrine. While I may judge that association, I cannot judge his own salvation which is totally dependant on the relationship between him and God.
windcatcher
New Member
Marcia,
I do appreciate your discussion of this topic!
Some points which I do wonder about:
(a bit off topic....... but an appeal to those on this board and especially Marcia)
I would appreciate prayer for my nephew and his wife. Their names are Stephen and Carol, and they've a baby on the way. Stephen was raised in the Baptist Church and made his confession in Jesus Christ in his youth. However, when he met Carol, and she was a fine and morally upright young lady..... he loved her from the start: She is Mormon and so is all her family. When my sister first heard of this, before he was married, she encouraged Stephen to talk with his pastor and also talked with him about and showed him information regarding the false teachings of the Mormon religion: To the best of my sister's understanding, Stephen understood that those teachings are false and talked with Carol about them, and she seemed to agree that those were not her own belief... and that her faith was more inline with his: This, however, did not make her break with the Mormon church or her family with whom she lived with at the time...and they (meaning she and her parents) wanted a Mormon wedding. Stephen 'had' to convert for this to be possible and he did so:
Their wedding took place about 4 or 5 years ago, in the Mormon church: His own parents could only attend and invite others to their reception as they were not allowed into the wedding ceremony. My sister, Teressa, has always had the hopes that as their own family life got stronger and, hopefully, before children entered the scene, that Carol would follow the faith of her husband and be willing to break with her church. Of course I'm realistic to believe that this could be more my sister's hope than the couple's intention.
I do have some several concerns: Does Stephen know Jesus as his LORD and SAVIOR? If he does, then isn't his witness as a Christian tainted by association and belonging to a religion of false doctrine? What about Carol and the spiritual leadership and authority of her husband in the home? Now that a child is on the way..... does Stephen recognize the responsibility and necessity for bringing that child into an environment of truth in the knowledge of the Lord? He and Carol have both established themselves well with her family...... this may be the best opportunity which they have if they truely wish to break with the Mormon religion. As time goes on and if they continue as they have established themselves to be, it will become more hard....not less to make a break later if this was ever their intention. I try not to make this too much my business and live much too far away to get actively involved except through prayer...... but I hope that others who read this and can agree with me on this issue will pray for this young couple.
And thanks be to God for each and every one of you who will pray with me on this issue!
raying: :1_grouphug:
I do appreciate your discussion of this topic!
Some points which I do wonder about:
This is my concern regarding such: when the Mormons take a convert from another faith..... do they really inform him regarding their teachings or is this reserved for those raised strickly in thier religion: IOW is the convert clearly endoctrinated or is he/or she possibly oriented with shallow and seemingly 'innocent' explanations and directions regarding conduct and discipline so that the more subtle intent of infusing the false endoctrination is hidden? I will admit, I've wondered when I've heard about 'conversions' to Mormonism by those who I would have thought were saved and knew the Jesus of the Bible as the son of God and only savior.Marcia said:
I wholeheartedly endorse this response which is based more upon a viewpoint of love and concern rather than a certainty of judgeing his salvation. This keeps God and us in correct perspective:Marcia said:
(a bit off topic....... but an appeal to those on this board and especially Marcia)
I would appreciate prayer for my nephew and his wife. Their names are Stephen and Carol, and they've a baby on the way. Stephen was raised in the Baptist Church and made his confession in Jesus Christ in his youth. However, when he met Carol, and she was a fine and morally upright young lady..... he loved her from the start: She is Mormon and so is all her family. When my sister first heard of this, before he was married, she encouraged Stephen to talk with his pastor and also talked with him about and showed him information regarding the false teachings of the Mormon religion: To the best of my sister's understanding, Stephen understood that those teachings are false and talked with Carol about them, and she seemed to agree that those were not her own belief... and that her faith was more inline with his: This, however, did not make her break with the Mormon church or her family with whom she lived with at the time...and they (meaning she and her parents) wanted a Mormon wedding. Stephen 'had' to convert for this to be possible and he did so:
Their wedding took place about 4 or 5 years ago, in the Mormon church: His own parents could only attend and invite others to their reception as they were not allowed into the wedding ceremony. My sister, Teressa, has always had the hopes that as their own family life got stronger and, hopefully, before children entered the scene, that Carol would follow the faith of her husband and be willing to break with her church. Of course I'm realistic to believe that this could be more my sister's hope than the couple's intention.
I do have some several concerns: Does Stephen know Jesus as his LORD and SAVIOR? If he does, then isn't his witness as a Christian tainted by association and belonging to a religion of false doctrine? What about Carol and the spiritual leadership and authority of her husband in the home? Now that a child is on the way..... does Stephen recognize the responsibility and necessity for bringing that child into an environment of truth in the knowledge of the Lord? He and Carol have both established themselves well with her family...... this may be the best opportunity which they have if they truely wish to break with the Mormon religion. As time goes on and if they continue as they have established themselves to be, it will become more hard....not less to make a break later if this was ever their intention. I try not to make this too much my business and live much too far away to get actively involved except through prayer...... but I hope that others who read this and can agree with me on this issue will pray for this young couple.
And thanks be to God for each and every one of you who will pray with me on this issue!
raying: :1_grouphug:
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The Morman Jesus and the Jesus as found in the Bible are different. To trust in the Morman's Jesus is to trust in a false Messiah. The Morman's primary source of doctrine is not the Bible. The Bible, according to them, is corrupted and must be interpreted in light of the book of Morman and the declarations of thier prophets. Hence their strange doctrines that, in many ways, contradict the Bible.
I've had several conversations with active Mormans. And each time they tried to tell me that they were Christians. There was almost a sense that they were trying to flatter me. But, after a few questions about their doctrine the truth soon became evident. What they mean by Christian and what we mean are different. Their salvation is not faith based as much as it is works based. After all, they are trying to attain diety (At least the men are. Women are out of luck). At first glance the differences appear to be subtle but dig a little deeper and hell fire is a very real danger for those who subscribe to the Morman faith.
I've had several conversations with active Mormans. And each time they tried to tell me that they were Christians. There was almost a sense that they were trying to flatter me. But, after a few questions about their doctrine the truth soon became evident. What they mean by Christian and what we mean are different. Their salvation is not faith based as much as it is works based. After all, they are trying to attain diety (At least the men are. Women are out of luck). At first glance the differences appear to be subtle but dig a little deeper and hell fire is a very real danger for those who subscribe to the Morman faith.
My problem isn't whether or not he claims to be a mormon. And my problem isn't the obviously false teachings they support. I believe Catholicism to be in just as much, or even more grevious errer, but I will NOT say all Catholics are lost.
__________________
I totally agree
__________________
I totally agree
Marcia said:
Official doctrine of both churches states there can be no salvation outside it's doors.
Years ago I met the people at www.hismin.com and they told the congregation that if the people would read their Bible they would never join a cult.windcatcher said:
Many years ago an elderly man asked me, "How do you tell a crooked stick? You lay a straight one next to it."
Before I started pastoring I had gone to churches where some in the congregation had studied the languages in a Bible school and were serious about studying the Bible and making disciples. Any pastor who studies hard knows that as time goes by, the languages become easier and the text is better understood because he has paid the price of studying and gathering a knowledge of the text so that he can better feed himself and others. He also knows how few will engage him in a serious discusssion because they have not studied enough to seriously discuss the Bible. When people discover that serious study results in the benefit of being able to share their faith and watch people come away with a knowledge of the Bible rather than just what they were told by someone who is ignorant.
In a town where I once lived, the Catholic priest gave an invitation to receive Christ at the end of his sermons. A few of their priests studied at the same seminary I did. A roommate from college came to Christ through a Catholic priest while in high school. My mother who is now a Christian attends Bible studies that I would consider excellent and far better than most churches engage in. A few years ago she went to a conference on how to share her faith. I have seen the RCC move a long ways from where it once was in regards to studying the Bible. I feel as though I see the RCC spending more and more time studying their Bible and protestants spending less and less time while the world is becoming more and more secular and the church is becoming more and more humanistic and ratiomnalistic.Berean said:
double post
Ahh. So their errors are fine with you, but the Mormons are all going to hell, right ? The RCC's humanistic efforts make them right in your eyes, but the efforts of LDS folks to make life better for people are inspired by satan. What is it about the RCC that warms your heart so that you can't condemn them like you do the Mormons ?
I'll leave this to the finger pointers.
I'll leave this to the finger pointers.
Some are obviously a mile off while others are not so far off. Some continue to go down a wrong path even when shown they are wrong and agree they are wrong. While others change under the same circumstances.Bro. Curtis said:
FYI: the RCC now has some protestants writing some of their scholarly books.
Mormonism and JWS will be dishonest and plagiarize the writings of Christians out of context in support of their own teachings to say something the writer never said.
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