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For how long?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Apr 11, 2024.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Matt 27:46 CSB - About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Elí, Elí, lemá[fn] sabachtháni ? ” that is, “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me ?”
    Luke 23:46 CSB - And Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” Saying this, he breathed his last.

    Acts 2:31 CSB - “Seeing what was to come, he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah: He [fn][Other mss read His soul] was not abandoned in Hades, and his flesh did not experience decay.

    How long after Jesus said,"My God, my God, why have you abandoned me ,” does one think Jesus died?
    At death was Jesus abandoned to the realm of the dead, IE Hades per the above? And then after three days, by resurrection, no longer abandoned in the realm of the dead, ie Hades?

    How long was Jesus the Messiah abandoned of God?
     
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Divine Attribute of The Infinity of Jesus Christ's Person,
    Abundantly Compensates for an Eternity of Punishment
    that would be Executed
    on a lost soul in The Lake of Fire,
    FOREVER;

    Jesus Christ being an Infinite Person, was able to BEAR
    the WHOLE INFINITE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT
    that would be Executed
    on a lost soul in The Lake of Fire, FOREVER, at Once,


    BECAUSE: "...when He was made sin and a curse,

    and His soul was made an Offering for sin,
    was tantamount to an Eternal Death,

    or the sufferings of the wicked in Hell;

    "for though they differ as to the circumstance of time and place;

    "the persons/Person being different,
    the one Finite, the Other Infinite;

    "yet, as to the Essence of them, their Essence is the same:

    "Eternal Death consists in these Two Things,

    1.) Punishment of Loss,

    2.) and Punishment of Sense:


    "The former, The Punishment of Loss
    lies in an Eternal Separation from God,
    or a Deprivation of His Presence Forever;
    "Depart from me, you cursed":

    "the latter, The Punishment of Sense,
    is an Everlasting Sense of the Wrath of God,
    expressed by "everlasting fire".

    ANSWER: "A TIME", "A WHILE", etc.

    "Now Christ Endured what was answerable to
    The Punishment of Loss in the Eternal Separation from God,
    and Deprivation of His Presence for a Time,

    "And Christ Endured The Punishment of Sense,
    when God was Wroth with Him, His Anointed;
    when His Wrath was Poured out like fire upon Him;


    "and His Heart melted like wax within Him, under it;
    WHEN: "the sorrows of Hell" compassed Him about for a while
    He suffered the Loss of His Father's Gracious Presence,

    when He said, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
    (Psalm 89:38; 22:14; 18:5)

    =

    Jesus was not left, to remain in the grave/ tomb,
    but was Raised from the dead.

    Moments, apparently, that no doubt seemed like "an Eternity"
    while Jesus' overall sacrifice was esteemed by God the Father,
    as equivalent to an Eternity of Punishment a lost soul would suffer.

    Jesus was placed into a borrowed tomb,
    for three days and three nights.

    Exactamundo!!!

    GLORY to GOD ALMIGHTY.


    "So, Eternity itself is not the Essence of The Punishment"
    as a component of that suffering that would be
    Executed
    on a lost soul in The Lake of Fire,
    FOREVER,

    but, "Eternity" only takes place, and becomes a component
    of the lost soul's suffering, when the person punished
    can not bear the whole at once,

    OR CAN NOT BEAR THE WHOLE PUNISHMENT, EVER,

    ALTHOUGH THEY SUFFER THE ENDLESS DURATION
    of TORMENT in HELLFIRE and BRIMSTONE,

    BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SATISFY
    or EXTINGUISH THE JUSTICE of GOD
    BROUGHT AGAINST THEIR EARTHLY SINS.


    "And being Finite, as sinful man is,
    he can not make Satisfaction to the Infinite Majesty of God,
    Who has been Infinantly Offended and injured by sin,
    the demerit of which is Infinite Punishment*:
    and since that cannot be bore at once by a Finite Creature, OR EVER,
    it is continued ad infinitum, i.e., "Eternally";


    "but Christ being an Infinite Person",
    was able to BEAR
    the WHOLE INFINITE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, at Once;
    and the Infinity of His Person
    ,
    Abundantly Compensates for the Eternity of the Punishment*."
    ...

    *This kind of death was a shameful one;
    hence Christ is said to endure the cross, and despise the shame;
    that is, the shame that attended it:
    Hebrews 12:2;

    "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
    Who for the joy that was set before Him
    endured the cross, despising the shame,
    and is set down at the Right Hand of the Throne of God."


    "which lay not so much in His being crucified naked,
    and so exposed, was that truly the case,
    as in its being the punishment of strangers,
    of servants, and slaves, and such like mean persons;

    "but not of freemen and citizens of Rome;
    hence it was called "servile supplicium," a servile punishment:


    *Supplicium = punishment;

    Definition: Supplicium (sə-PLISH-ee-əm) is a Latin term
    used in Roman law to refer to a punishment.

    The ultimate supplicium is the death penalty.

    Examples: When a Roman citizen committed a serious crime,
    they could face supplicium, which might include being whipped,
    or even put to death, by crucifixion, or other means.


    Adapted from:
    The Body of Doctrinal Divinity.
    by John Gill.

    Book V:
    The Grace of Christ in His States of Humiliation and Exaltation.

    Chapter 4:
    The Passive Obedience of Christ and His Sufferings and Death.
     
    #2 Alan Gross, Apr 12, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2024
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That time ended before, John 19:28 where it is written, . . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . .
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Was his resurrection accomplished at the time?
    Was Jesus dead for three days?
    As dead was Jesus in the presence of the Father or abandoned from the Father, being the soul of him and the body of him were separated from the spirit of him?

    Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
    1 Cor 15:55 YLT where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

    Did death and Hades have dominion over Jesus the Christ for three days?

    Might as well ask, part of three days or three full, whole days? What do the, "scholars," say three in the Word of God means?

    And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruit of those sleeping he became, 1 Cor 15:20
    Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Lev 23:10,11
    The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
    Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:1,17

    The morrow after the Sabbath, to be accepted for you.

    Were the sins of us all, which he bore, gone from him? How?

    Maybe? and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, [regeneration?] and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood, Rev 1:5

    Were our sins washed away in his blood by the regeneration of him to spirit?
    1 Peter 3:18 YLT because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,
    1 Cor 15:45,46 YLT so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ever wonder why this question has no merit?

    Did God "abandon" Christ? Or was Jesus simply fulfilling the prophecy of Psalm 22?

    Did Jesus become "sin" as some translations claim, or did Jesus become our sin offering because the penalty of sin was laid upon Him. Study Psalm 22, and see if you too can discern by quoting a part of this chapter, Jesus was calling to the minds of believers the whole chapter in which God had NOT actually abandoned the afflicted.
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I was thinking the same thing.

    One of the main themes of Psalm 22 is that God did not abandon His righteous even though they be forsaken to suffer for a time.
     
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  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Jesus went to the 'intermediate state' that all went to at that time. In the type of Joseph, both Joseph the type and and Christ the Antitype were falsely accused by The Harlot and cast into the prison, which evidently is allegorical of an 'intermediate state':

    18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
    19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3

    6 And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude

    9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
    10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph 4

    Joseph as type interpreted dreams while in this intermediate state, Christ as Antitype preached.

    13 within yet three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head, and restore thee.... Gen 40

    Both type and Antitype were elevated from this prison and set at the right hand of The Ruler and the nations came to them for their food. Antitype is now:

    29 .....the firstborn among many brethren: Ro 8

    I don't think this 'intermediate state' exists now, for the saints that is.
     
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