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Featured Four questions for Calvinists.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by glad4mercy, Oct 27, 2016.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Whoa whoa whoa...Yes physical Miracles are examples of Spiritual Truths, But you misapply this if you are thinking regeneration.

    First of all, Jesus Says SPECIFICALLY He is doing this to show Himself being the LIFE and RESURRECTION.

    Lazarus would have already been regenerated, so Christ is not teaching/showing us that in this Miracle.

    He is teaching us that He is the Resurrection. Period.

    This is not addressing the "unsaved"....eisegesis my friend.
     
    #61 JonShaff, Nov 3, 2016
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello JonS
    Look just physically . ....death to life.....
    THE only thing you bring is a dead body.....and a dead body being dead is unable to do anything but stink and decay.
    1 Cor 15:44-58....physical first....then spiritual . ...
     
    #62 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2016
  3. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    HALLELUJAH!!

    There you go! That's the DRAWING, just like I said. Drawn, believe, regeneration. Elementary.

    If they are still corpses AND HEAR, then they were drawn, but not yet regenerate.

    If they are corpses WHEN THEY HEAR, how can they be said to be regenerate, (spiritually raised)

    They are drawn (act of God), then believe, then God regenerates monergistically.

    You are the one who said they hear while still corpses.

    Kudos.
     
    #63 glad4mercy, Nov 6, 2016
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You rejoice too fast....regeneration animates the corpse enabling the hearing....obviously. ...lol
    If you think otherwise try starting some conversation in the graveyard. ...let us know how far you get with that....lol
     
    #64 Iconoclast, Nov 6, 2016
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Icon, will you define "regeneration" for me?

    I have been thinking of this "washing" (how Paul uses the word in Titus) and reworking of the Spirit, but those words (Titus 2) seem also to identify with that faith of Titus 1:11-13. But this regeneration seems to indicate salvation itself (which is indeed through faith)....so I'm not sure we are using the same definition here.

    Also, just a side note, it is great to have had this thread actually going on for 64 posts without being hijacked and turned into brother insulting brother. It's been a long time since I've seen dialogue remain Christian this long in this section of the board.
     
    #65 JonC, Nov 6, 2016
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  6. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    quote- ....regeneration animates the corpse enabling the hearing....

    But if regeneration animates the corpse to enable the hearing, the corpse is no longer a corpse when it hears, OBVIOUSLY...

    so NO, corpses do not hear unless they are raised. But unlike corpses, dead sinners are capable of hearing with their physical ears and either not understanding or rejecting. So the Lazarus analogy you are using is incomplete.

    So now you will say "effectual call", which is fine. But the analogy you are using is still incomplete. A sinner can reject God's command to repent. A corpse cannot, because the Soul is gone from the body. The soul is not gone from the body in spiritual death, it is rather separated from God

    So the analogy is incomplete
     
    #66 glad4mercy, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Here comes another sola "Saved by Regeneration Alone"

    Sola Regeneratus.

    You know what needs to be looked at is this Regeneration and Justification as being two seperate things or one thing, that occurs seperate times or same time, Once and for all, or continuously.


    1 Corinthians 7
    19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the:eek: keeping of the commandments of God.:eek:

    19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is :Thumbsupbeing regenerated and faith alone.:Thumbsup



    Galatians 5

    4You have been :eek:severed:eek: from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have :eek:fallen from grace:eek:. 5For we through the Spirit, by :eek:faith, are waiting for the hope of :eek:righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but:eek: faith working through love.:eek:


    4You have been BACKSLID:Whistling from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have BACKSLID:Whistling from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by :Thumbsupregeneration:Thumbsup, are waiting for the hope of :WhistlingFAITH. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through:eek: regeneration:Thumbsup.

    6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith alone:Ninja.



    1 john 1

    9:eek:If we confess our sins,:eek: He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. :eek:

    9:mad:regenerator! Imputed wrongy on Jesus:Whistling.....and righty on us from all unrighteousness:Thumbsup.
     
    #67 utilyan, Nov 7, 2016
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that he gave His life for his opwn sheep, who were all those whom the father had given to Him to get saved...

    hebrews also makes it clear that was the High Priest who is able to eternally save the MANY that he died for!
     
    #68 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Except that a sinner must be enabled by the Holy Spirit to hear and respond to the Gospel, as natural man receives not the things of the Spirit, correct?
     
    #69 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think that people take the analogy of a "spiritual corpse" too far. Scripture presents the spiritually dead as possessing spirits inclined away from God, not as spiritually unable to respond. In fact, the spiritually dead do respond spiritually to God. They sin, they turn away, they rebel.

    I believe that God works in the wills of men to incline their wills to Himself (God draws men). I don't know that I'd say God enables men to respond as much as God brings them to that faith.
     
    #70 JonC, Nov 7, 2016
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Scripturally......it is correct 1 Cor 2:14.......he cannot...........you say he can
     
    #71 Iconoclast, Nov 7, 2016
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The spirtual dead always by their own "will" will do as you stated here, as that is their natural inclination...

    Are you saying that God extends his grace towards all to respond in a saving fashion, or just unto his elect then?
     
    #72 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am saying that God offers salvation to all, but none of their own natural will comes. God draws the elect to Himself.
     
    #73 JonC, Nov 7, 2016
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Really? That is in complete opposition to the standard understanding of election and God's Sovereignty by reformed folks.
     
    #74 Revmitchell, Nov 7, 2016
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you then a "4 point Calvinist?"

    Holding to the Unlimited view of the Atonement?
     
    #75 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Well, I wouldn't hold it against them. :D
     
    #76 JonC, Nov 7, 2016
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I believe the Cross is an atonement for only those who believe, who come (and no one comes but that the Father draw them), the elect.
     
    #77 JonC, Nov 7, 2016
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So what in your mind is the worst part of classic Arminian salvation theology then?
     
    #78 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Conditional election.
     
    #79 JonC, Nov 7, 2016
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Actually it is exactly in keeping with the Particular Redemption view of the Atonement, Election, and the drawing of God.
     
    #80 TCassidy, Nov 7, 2016
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