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Featured Free Will vs. Human Responsibility

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Cal refer to it as Human Responsibility, and Arminian as Free Will but can you tell the difference? God gave Adam a Will and he disobeyed God, but this was all part of the plan God had. No God did not force Adam to sin, but His sin did not surprise him. Many these days confuse Calvinism with Hyper Calvinism which is a system of thought that teaches God makes robots, creates people to sin, and is responsible for evil, and so forth. If anyone has read Sproul's book on Reformed theology (which I often refer too) you will see this is quite true about Hyper Calvinism regardless of the defenses of the system some on this board and on web sites will make.

    As Grudem said we do not fully understand this and how God can draw the elect to salvation (effectual call), yet at the same time create us with the ability to choose God or reject Him as we are not robots. What say you?
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    There is a will working in sinners, and it freely operates in accordance to their nature. Change the nature, change the will....
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    :thumbsup:
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...yet those whose nature has changed still choose to sin daily.
     
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I think your post is a rambling incomprehensible mess.

    I think God enables us to make a choice for Christ.
     
  6. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Really? I think you need some quality time with a rabbit.
     
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Do u have 1 for me?
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Don't feed the rabbits.
     
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The inner man's nature is changed...flesh still fleshly...
     
  10. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    All over Colorado in fact one in my yard the other day. They also Pop up randomly due to their digging.
     
  11. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    This is another instance where both sides get it wrong. And for somebody to be a scholar and not understand this ???

    Life comes by being redeemed, and that redemption is the sole means of saving anyone from eternal damnation.

    Life comes through faith, or believing upon Christ for the life He purchased. By being thoroughly convinced that He alone has the power to redeem you, and that this "sending off" of sins is completely sufficient for salvation from damnation.

    It's not one bit about obeying, or committing, or following, or deciding, or choosing, or anything placed upon a man's shoulders to bear. It is purely a work of the Holy Spirit, to change a man's thinking (repentance)

    Responsibility comes from the condition of a man's heart, and many reject the good seed. Romans 1:17 says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The have their head in the sand, to where they cannot perceive or hear

    Grudem is a joke if He thinks God has developed a quandary, or otherwise operates in a conflicted fashion
     
  12. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    But does man have a free will to choose God or not?????
     
  13. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    You jumped around the question. Grudem only argues that we do not fully understand the mystery between sovereignty and responsibility.
     
  14. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Passive reception of truth versus active rejection of truth. Pretty simple, really.

    The Holy Spirit works in a man to convince him of truth, and it happens. We BECOME believers, passively

    Either that, or man works actively (in various ways) against becoming convinced.


    It's like when a heart surgeon does a transplant. He does all the work to implant it, and it works.

    That is, unless the body actively rejects the new heart. Can God circumvent the body's rejection if the new heart? He could if Ge wants to. But in the realm of conversion, He doesn't do that


    Or, to use a biblical analogy.....a sower goes out sowing seeds of truth, and people are like the ground. When did the ground ever reach out and grab a seed? It is planted into the ground. And it will absolutely take root, unless the ground rejects it
     
    #14 JamesL, Nov 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2014
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    How is a man free to choose Christ whilst in bondage to sin? A sinner is bound in sin and is a servant of sin(Romans 6:16). Just like slaves back in the 1800's before the "Emancipation Proclamation" given by Abraham Lincoln. They weren't free to choose to either be a slave to their master or not. They were bound to their master, seeing that no one could free them from their slavery. It took someone other than themselves to free them.


    That is what Christ did for those who were given to them by the Father. He died, paid their sin debt in full...a debt they were unable to pay. He broke the yoke of bondage that satan had upon them, and placed His yoke upon them(Matthew 11:28-30).
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Are men free to choose God? Yes...but they are unwilling.
     
  17. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    What, precisely, is a man supposedly "choosing" in the unbiblical phrase "choose Christ" ??
     
  18. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    What, precisely, is someone supposedly choosing in the unbiblical phrase "choose God" ???
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Excellent analogy!!!! :thumbsup:

    Did the slave have a desire to be freed? Many did, some where fearful of what this freedom might entail, some which felt they were treated well were content to stay slaves. This is a good picture of those enslaved with sin. The offer of salvation has been given, the way has been paved, now their desires to be free may be obtained!!!! If they so choose.......................Praise :jesus:
     
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The Proclamation gave the slaves a choice, just as Jesus Christ now gives all men a choice!! Praise Him!!!! :godisgood:
     
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