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Freemasonry vs. Christianity

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by O.F.F., Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    quote:
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    Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity. Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (From this statement, we see that Freemasonry teaches that all concepts of God are one and the same. This is why Masonic author Allen Roberts could make the following claim: )

    No Mike! From this statement we find that as long as you believe in a Supreme Being you can join Freemasonry nothing more.


    (If it makes no distinction as to who God is, then it allows any concept of God to represent Him.)

    Tennessee: God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity

    The above statement is pretty clear from a masonic refrence at to the Concept of God in Freemasonry is, But each mason may not believe in the same God, Jehovah represented in the Rituals of Freemasonry it is not requirrd to become a mason to do so.


    (If you and Ben are grounded in God's Word, then you both should know that the Masonic view of God is not consistent with the following verses of Scripture: Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 45:5, Exodus 20:3, Psalm 96:5, Matthew 28:19, John 1:1-2, I Corinthians 10:19-21, II Corinthians 13:14, Philippians 2:6, and Colossian 1:15-17.)

    I am not sure what the rest of the OR Mason said as you have only presented a small paragrah. But never the less just by looking at what the paragraph says it is clear that He states that each Mason has a Supreme Being not every mason worships the same Supreme Being.

    The Hindu, Muslim, Jew so not believe in the same God that Christians do. Freemasonry teaches that even thou we do not believe in the same God we can come together for the benifit of taking care of people in need no matter our religious diffs.


    (Finally, how does Freemasonry treat Jesus Christ?)
    Faith in the Merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah is how you gain attmentance into Heaven.

    The Morning Star

    Hiram is a Mediator in the sence that he teaches the values of Freemasonry it has nothing to do with Salvation. It is a poor choie of words on Albert Pikes part thou. But again He wrote poeticly.


    The Lamb Skin is a reminder that you must be without sin to enter Heaven. It is not a works salvation.

    Ruogh Ashar states we HOPE to arrive and includes WITH THE BLESSINGS OF GOD.

    (Notice that Freemasonry NEVER mentions faith in Jesus Christ as being a factor.)

    Freemasonry does mention Jesus Christ.

    Faith in the Merits of the Liom of the Tribe of Judah is how you gain attmentiance into Heaven. Stated by Dr. Gary Leazer


    Hiram is not the Savior of Freemaosnry Hiram is a man who died was buried and remained buried.
     
  2. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Jacob (Corey),

    You have not refuted the claims made by Grand Lodges whom you recognize and are yoked with Masonically. They state, as I have documented several above, that Masons ALL worship the same God, and that Hiram Abiff is the savior for Masons. Grand Lodges are the authoritative bodies of Freemasonry, not individual Masons. Therefore, we will take what they have to say over what you as one Mason may put forth. Futhermore, if as you say, Masons do not worship the same God then why as a Christian are you allowing yourself to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers?

    On a second note, I think that the members of this forum need to be made aware of your involvement in The Worm’s & “Rev” Wayne’s cover-up. You posted to me in an earlier thread the following, when I accused the Worm of her charade:
    Either you knew it was his wife all along or else they LIED to you too. Yet, 5 days later you sent me, in part, this private message:
    If you didn’t know her then she and your Masonic brother Wayne deliberately mislead you. She sent this to me in an email after I started giving her pressure about collaborating with Wayne to deceive saints here at the baptistboard:

    So which is it Jacob, are you going to tell us that the Worm maintained her charade and allowed you to believe she didn’t even know her own husband Rev. Wayne, or are you going to admit to aiding and abetting her in deception? If the latter is the case, this is an opportunity for you to confess and repent before the members of this forum.

    Otherwise, please try to explain how she can speak to you one day, and you tell me later that you have no idea who she really was? In either case, you are snared and your credibility is in question. Either you are too naïve to see that you were used by your own Masonic family, or else you too are guilty of deception.

    Pretty ironic coming from a Mason who claims to be a Christian and recently started a thread on a Masonic discussion board entitled, “Moral Issues,” where you asked the question: “I know that many of us differ on Moral Issue what we consider moral and what is not moral. What are some of the basics of morality of Freemasonry?”

    Let me provide the Masonic answer for you:
    Mike Gentry
    Order of FORMER Freemasons
     
  3. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    (You have not refuted the claims made by Grand Lodges whom you recognize and are yoked with Masonically.)

    Mike did you not read my post I addressed those issue please reread it. As far as Yoked I am not married to them. Just as I work with a fellow mason to help others I work with people at my place of employment.

    As far as Rev Waynes cover up I had nothing to do with it. You accussed The Worm of being a Man because she had the same IP as Rev. I did not think it would be hard to put two and two together that The Worm was a Female friend of Rev Wayne possibly. I think I got two BB post from Her and that was it I think.

    Your attacks on others is shameful. Each time someone asked info on Masonry when the Worm posted you did not address the issue you attack the person The Worm.

    I do not want to get drug into your petty games. I am here to learn and present issues not attack people. At no point did the Worm tell me who she was I took a guess and was somewhat right.

    The Worm probaly asumed I knew who she was but I did not nor did I care really. I believe every person should be allowed to post. Within the Guildlines.


    (In either case, you are snared and your credibility is in question.)

    First Mike not sure how I am snared I am not guilty of anything.

    Second you have accussed me of a few things one of which is a RACIST! and you question my Salvation.

    And you aline yourself with people who state that the same fate will happen the a Christian Mason as with a Mason Hindu, Muslim and Jew the Apron will come off or burn off! (In other words the statment says a Christ who remains a Mason will goto Hell)

    Now this is clearly unbiblical teaching from people you alige yourself with.



    Second if my credibility is in question point out in any of my post were I have not been honest.


    Now I am not here to pick a fight I am hear to Learn and post responces.


    Mike the reason I have started alot of threads over at the Masonic Board is to share Christ with them those who are not Christian and those who are:

    Here is a list of some of the Threads I have started.

    "Adam was He a Real Person"
    "Silent Night I was there"
    "Fragile Breath"
    "Ten Commandments"
    "Prayer Rerquest"
    "Great White Throne Judgement Will You be there"
    "Time Line Events"
    "Carbon Dating"

    If you are not seeing a pattern yet let me spell it out for you. I am trying to witness Christ to them by engaging them to look up things pretaining to God and Jesus Christ. I have given links to Answersingenesis and Christiananswers.net alot with bible.com. To get them to read about creation and Jesus. I present the Gospel every chance I get. I show morality from a Biblical view.

    And they are willing to listen. Do you know why Mike it is because I do not attack them I become their friend I present Christ.


    And Mike I know me and you have our differences but I sinerlly hope you are able to lead people to Christ wether we agree on Freemasonry or not the Primary issue is leading people to Christ.
     
  4. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Any "Grand Lodge" will tell you that the term for God is the Great Architect of the Universe. The term that was invented by popular Baptist Reformer John Calvin. Which means God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Hence the term is a Trinitarian Christian Term.

    The Trinity is proven in Scripture, 1John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one.
     
  5. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Ever wondered why the Lodge gives out Masonic Bibles, and you've probably never heard of a "Masonic Koran?" Not in this country anyway. Masons have a high regard for the Bible, it is the Book that rests on the altar in the Lodge, and is quoted in most of their rituals.

    An example of a Bible presentation to a Lodge member:

    And some people interpret this as Satanism.
     
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Well, they don't give out Bibles to Masons in Buddhist or Islamic countries, do they? Masonry is fine with honoring non-Christian religions in other countries. If you are going to give out Bibles in the U.S., then give them out everywhere. Be evangelistic. Don't endorse religions counter to Christianity in other countries.
     
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    The presentation of the Bible was very pious sounding but does not mention Jesus. Also, it has this line:

    The Bible does not have any myths in it. It does have allegories (aside from Jesus' parables if you want to call them allegories but technically they aren't) in it. This is a little poison sneaking in here.

    It also mentions God's "unfailing love" but not his wrath on sin or that the Bible is basically about redemption of man through Christ.

    I would not call this Satanism -- it is much worse. It is an appearance of loving the Bible but actually downgrading its truth by making it sound like just a lovely book that has great stuff in it. Even my agnostic father believed that.

    I've always said that a book like the New Age Conversations with God is worse than The Satanic Bible because at least with the latter you know what it stands for. The New Age book is more deceptive because it quotes from the Bible and supposedly has nice-sounding words from "God."
     
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Correction:

    I said the Bible does have allegories -- I left out "not." It does not have allegories.
     
  9. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Freemasonry does not “endorse” any religion. The choice of a religion is a personal matter left up to the individual Mason.

    The suggestion that they are used interchangeably is misleading. They are used selectively according to which is the predominant religion of the land. That in itself should be enough to determine that Freemasonry is not a religion, although it does encourage and teach religious principles that are held by all religions. I find it ironic that generally the only ones trying to make Freemasonry Christian are those who speak against it, because the only ground for the majority of the accusations is that it is not Christian. But as Mike has shown us earlier, the Mason’s religion is a personal choice:

    So with his own questions, Mike acknowledges that there are Masons who are also Mormons, Masons who are also Hindus, and Masons who are also Buddhists. And there are Masons who are Christians, Jews, Moslems, or whatever other religious preference they choose to be.

    Nor should it. Freemasonry is not a Christian organization, as it is not even a religion. It is, however, an organization with quite a sizable Christian majority among its members.

    Biblical myth is not spoken of in the sense of “fairy tale,” which is apparently your reason for objecting to it. Myth in theological language is an imaginative story using symbols and images to help us understand a truth too difficult to express in words, and the Bible has quite a bit of it. I would even say most of the myth it contains is more correctly called mythopoetic, as it tends to use such images more often in the language of poetry. Isaiah 40 is a good example, where God’s creative acts are cast in the image of someone using common human measuring tools in careful design.
    But on the subject of allegory, even though I tend to agree with you, your remarks are not very judicious, as IMO you make a tremendous overstatement against it in your zeal to cast Freemasonry is as bad a light as you can. A significant number of Christians would disagree with your position, and you either ignore or dismiss the fact that your remark unnecessarily demonizes them as well. The only “poison” here is your choice of faulty debating methods of “poisoning the well.”

    Once again, since Freemasonry is not a religion, it makes no effort to develop a systematic redemptive framework—and it certainly would not be expected that anyone would lay out every detail of such a framework, even if it existed, in an honors ceremony like a Bible presentation. I should think that even in a Christian setting, presenting a Bible to someone is usually accompanied by something very similar to what was said in this one: general mention of the nature of the Bible and reasons for its value to us, and words of exhortation encouraging the recipient to use it “devotionally” to find God’s will and way in life.

    If that’s all you got from the presentation, you surely missed some key lines:

    The Holy Bible contains ethics, history, law, letters, medicine, morals, philosophy, prophecy, and a revelation of divine light and truth. . . . The intelligent reader discerns running through it an increasing purpose, a progressive revelation of truth. . . . . flashes of light arise from its pages revealing the mind and character of God. . . . our Lodge bids you read it frequently not with your eyes but with your heart, devotionally. . . . Other lights might fail, and as you increase your knowledge of it, it will become a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path. Let this sacred book be your rule and guide for your practice through life.

    Call it what you will, I do not see how you can read the bold print comments here and come away with a concept as weak as “a lovely book that has great stuff in it.” That totally misses the mark, and is a mischaracterizing of the message.

    Strange, I didn’t get that kind of picture when I read it, though I admit I found I couldn’t read all the way through it. My own disagreement with the book was not anything satanic, but the humanistic thinking at the heart of it. The author starts with conversations in his mind with God, builds his argument for the importance of opening yourself to this inner dialogue, and then proceeds to devalue the importance of written words in our search for God. It became very clear to me from that point that the main source of “written words” he was addressing was the Bible. And like all humanistic thinking, it eventually self-destructs. His did so from the minute he took it in the direction he did, since arguably the rejection of written words in one’s search for God would lead to a rejection of his book as well, which I presume he views as, basically, written words meant to help one find God.
     
  10. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    "The Worm" (Rev Wayne & Wife Lynn),

    You have a lot of nerve returning here to post as if your recent confession of deliberate deception against the members of this forum will be ignored or forgotten.

    You don't even have the decency to apology and ask for forgiveness. Why should we ever listen to what you have to say. Your credibility was shot dead in its tracks.

    Mike Gentry
     
  11. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Apparently this board is willing to give the benefit of the doubt as long as I stay on topic. For certain, they have no desire to allow ad hominem debates. Were I to engage you in this, my posts would be deleted. As I already stated, the entire exercise was not an attempt to deceive anyone but you, and even then only as a parody of the same behavior (posting others' material without citation, by permission) on your part (for which I notice you never apologized either). I notice you still continue the practice even now, with the use of Larry Kunk's material above, without reference.

    I have not done one single thing you have not done. Since the playing floor appears to have evened, may I suggest if you have a response to what I posted on topic, then post a response. If not, then find some other approach than character assassination.

    The Worm

    (P.S.--and you can leave the "Rev" out of this. I may quote a lot of the material he does and use the same arguments, but I do my own stuff.)
     
  12. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Mike
    You have not addressed my post. Where you have made remarks about me. And you again steel the topic off course by attacking the Worm instead of addressing the issue.
     
  13. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Well, they don't give out Bibles to Masons in Buddhist or Islamic countries, do they? Masonry is fine with honoring non-Christian religions in other countries. If you are going to give out Bibles in the U.S., then give them out everywhere. Be evangelistic. Don't endorse religions counter to Christianity in other countries. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you have a reference that shows that Bibles are not given out in non Christian countries? In Malaysia where there are various religions, Islam being predominant, the Christian orders of Freemasonry are thriving. - Even the Knights Templar!
     
  14. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Easter is a hallowed day in the Templar calendar. Marking as it does the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Easter represents the summit of all hopes of our Christian Faith. The Grand Encampment especially encourages every Sir Knight to attend the church of his choice on that great day in celebrating the great victory of Christ over death.

    The official Easter Sunrise Service sponsored by the Grand Encampment is held each year on the steps of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, VA. The public is most welcome. The starting time is 7:00 a.m. when the Sir Knights in full Templar uniform march up the hill to the strains of "Onward Christian Soldiers".


    Every Commandery is encouraged to hold a Public Christmas Observance in December. This is a joyous occasion to celebrate the birth of the Savior of Mankind. This service may be held on any day of the week and need not be at the time of meeting of the Commandery.


    How to Become a Knight Templar

    To petition a Commandery of Knights Templar or membership, you must first be a member of a Masonic Lodge and other pre-requisite bodies such as the Royal Arch Chapter and possibly a Council of Royal and Select Masters. (This depends on the state where you reside) To petition a Commandery one must profess a belief in the Christian Religion.
     
  15. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Phony "REV" Wayne, you said:

    You are a LIAR & a DECEIVER, you are not only quoting Wayne's material you are either dictating him word-for-word, or you are continuing to hide behind your wife's skirt. In either case, YOUR POSTS ARE WAYNE MAJOR'S NOT HIS WIFE LYNN'S.

    Furthermore, in your failed attempt to deceive me you LIED to the moderators and members of this forum, I suggest that everyone boycott your posts and NOT reply to them. Hopefully, you will eventually get the message and swirm your slimy self back into the dark hole "from whence you came."
     
  16. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    From the S.C. Monitor:

    Shoots that theory full of holes.


     
  17. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Mike
    You have not addressed my post. Where you have made remarks about me. And you again steel the topic off course by attacking the Worm instead of addressing the issue.
     
  18. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Corey (Jacob),

    What do you want to know? I pretty much addressed the problem in my post to you. Either you were lied to by Wayne's wife, or you were in on the scam all along. My post to you showed the chronology of posts, emails, and/or private messages.

    If you want to steer this thread off course by providing an explanation go ahead. Or we can address this in private.

    It is obvious by her email to me that you assisted her in some way. If she lied to you, why you choose to protect her is a mystery to me. If she was honest with you as to who she really was (Wayne's Wife), then your silence about the fact to this forum while we questioned her identity shows your lack of character when you could have cleared up the matter sooner.

    I have no problem addressing the biblical incompatibility issues against Freemasonry, I just don't choose to engage them with men or women that are dishonest.

    Mike
     
  19. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Mike
    First the assit I gave her was probally from the web pages I posted for everyone. Such had TN Grand Lodge Home Page and such providing Infomation that Clearly says from my Grand Lodge that Freemasonry can not get you into Heaven.

    You did not address any problems you seemed to have not read my post about the Grand Lodge Quotes you gave.

    You did not address the fact that you accussed me of racism. And you accussed me of being a Liar.

    I am not protecting Her, you have fasley charged me.
    Now this is the Second time you have attacked the Worm and not addressed the issues of the
    Board.

    I have presented the answers to your post please review them.
     
  20. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Corey,

    Your current post and the Worm's current PM appears to be a diversionary tactic. When she mentioned your assistance in the email I posted here, she makes no mention of your referral to the GL of Tenn. home page. The bottom-line is she has gone on record at a Masonic website admitting to have defrauded this forum. She mentioned in an email your help in the process, and has even come back here stating on this forum that her goal was to deceive me, yet ultimately did so at their expense. This is not a personal attack, it is a statement of the facts.

    If by "the issues of the Board" you are referring to the incompatibility of Freemasonry & Christianity, I have provided sufficient enough evidence to prove this fact. By the Worm's/Wayne's own admission on the MoM board, most members of the baptistboard agree that the teachings of the Masonic Order go against the teachings of the Bible. The only ones here who think Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity are you, Ben and Wayne (a.k.a. The Worm), who are ALL Masons!

    I don't think you are going to persuade us to think otherwise, anymore than I expect we'll convince you, Ben and the Major family that Masonic teachings come straight from the pit of hell.

    Although I will continue to provide more information to the saints here that are interested, I do not wish to engage in a debate with those Masons and/or others who've shown a willingness to deceive, as they defend the Masonic faith with unremitting denial of its biblical inconsistencies.

    As for the accusation of racism, that was made a while back on another thread, when I accused your Grand Lodge of being racist. If you take that personally, that's too bad. Perhaps you can address the issue with the Grand Master of your state.

    As far as I'm concern, your membership in that jurisdiction, as well as the Rev's in South Carolina, is a tacit agreement with their position on all issues; coupled with your financial support are tantamount to helping those Grand Lodges spread their heretical teachings and remain racist. If that makes you one, oh well, like the old saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it."

    The vast majority (70%) of regular lodges in the US accept and recognize Prince Hall (African-American) Masons. Your Grand Lodge, and that of the "Rev" Wayne are among the minority (30%) that still do not.

    You know very well that the Vice President of O.F.F. is a former Mason from your jurisdiction, and you know he can come here and prove that Freemasonry is not only NOT Christian, but that it is racist in your state of Tennessee. If your Grand Lodge (GL) feels that Prince Hall Masonry isn't "regular," explain why the majority of regular lodges believe they are? The only logical explanation as to why yours and the rest of the Grand Lodges in the South do not recognize them is pure racism, period. If your GL is so accepting of African-Americans, then why would they steer them to a Masonic system they deem as "clandestine" or irregular? Your own GL website states the following:
    The question and answer should read:

    Question: Are black men permitted to be Masons in this jurisdiction of Tennessee?

    Answer: No. Because there's a separate Masonic drinking fountain called Prince Hall Lodges from which they can quench their Masonic thirst. If one would try to petition our lodges he is subject to be black balled.


    Corey, I hope I have addressed your concerns, because as I said, I'd rather not deal with your denial any longer. Instead, I would rather move on to those who have a genuine desire to know the truth about Freemasonry in light of Scripture.

    Mike Gentry
    Order of FORMER Freemasons

    "The only thing necessary for the deception of Freemasonry to continue to triumph over the minds of interested Christians is for Ex-Masons for Jesus to sit back and do absolutely nothing."
     
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