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Featured Freewill or Election? Or both?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Sep 12, 2013.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    See, I would agree that man's will has nothing to do with regeneration. Man cannot regenerate themselves. What man can do though is choose to believe and call upon Jesus Christ to save them, then the will is up to God whether or not to save/regenerate. But of course, God has promised that all who call upon Him, He will save, so we can preach assuredly that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    It's right here in this passage....

    Romans10:13...."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

    You see the calling is prior to the saving.
     
    #21 steaver, Sep 17, 2013
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So the difference is whether or not God must draw man or man must seek God? (I can easily see Romans 10:13 fitting into both views).
     
    #22 JonC, Sep 17, 2013
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus and His Apostles were VERY sure that His death would bring a real and definite salvation to sinners intended to get saved by Him, not a maybe potential one!
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Sep 17, 2013
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Some folks never get it.

    [​IMG]
     
    #24 Winman, Sep 17, 2013
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am glad that you have finally admitted it for yourself!
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Sep 17, 2013
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Its both. The concepts are not mutually exclusive.
     
    #26 webdog, Sep 17, 2013
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    When do you expect him to do that when he is spiritually dead in sin Steve?

    Of course, we will go round & round with this......But I wont....this is just the same old, same old. The sinner contributes nothing to their own salvation---it is God's work from beginning to end. Yet you constantly attempt to slip the human element back in. Thats your synergistic outlook.....we however are Monergists--meaning we believe that if man contributes any essential part toward his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior. And that is the crucial issue .....IE the sovereignty of Gods grace. "Salvation is of the Lord"--Jonah 2:9

    BTW....We do preach that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
     
    #27 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2013
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Amen! And he got a gun too and is showing it off!
     
    #28 preacher4truth, Sep 17, 2013
  9. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Sort of but not quite (in fact is is way off) as Scripture explicitly states it is not according to mans will, choice, decision or desire. Man doesn't 'choose' to believe, nor after such choice is he rewarded salvation, which would be what salvation would become -- a reward -- not a gift.
     
    #29 preacher4truth, Sep 17, 2013
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ,
    If the sinner contributes nothing...its not their salvation, nor did they contribute to their condition in getting to that point. Lets be truly consistent.
     
    #30 webdog, Sep 17, 2013
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Its a gift.....you get to keep the gift. It becomes yours.
     
    #31 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 17, 2013
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    He doesn't get it, it's God's salvation, he is making it man's salvation.
     
    #32 preacher4truth, Sep 17, 2013
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    From what I gather, taking in all the scriptures telling man to make a decision for God, and there are plenty, man is spiritually dead, however God gives man enough light through the Holy Spirit to understand the truth of his condition and the truth about the cure, therefore obligating man to make a decision and holding man accountable for that decision if it be nay. Man is depraved, but I do not agree with "T" that he cannot make a decision when God opens a door for him to walk in if he so chooses.

    It is God's work, God allowing man to choose to allow God to do the work does not make man his own savior by any means. I contributed nothing in my salvation. Saying yes is not a work. It is surrendering to God, saying yes Lord, do your saving work in me!
     
    #33 steaver, Sep 17, 2013
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Sure he does....just doesnt want to accept it. LOL....thats his choice.
     
    #34 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 17, 2013
  15. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    It is not by human decision -- John 1:13; Romans 9:16. That and faith and belief is according to the power of God, not by the choice or inherent 'faith' of man -- Eph. 1:19.
     
    #35 preacher4truth, Sep 17, 2013
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    This is the crux of our difference..... "Man is depraved, but I do not agree with "T" that he cannot make a decision when God opens a door for him to walk in if he so chooses."

    You see that, right? And I beg to differ.
     
    #36 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 17, 2013
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Sure, because carnal man refuses to believe he can't have a part or choice in the matter. It's just not fair. Man wants to be the one to flip the switch, yet there will be room for no boasting before God -- ever, 1 Cor. 1:26, but of course some are boasting about it this side of the Sun.

    John MacArthur preached a great and solid message on this today on www.bottradionetwork.com
     
    #37 preacher4truth, Sep 17, 2013
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I get it just fine. Man needs salvation, not God.
     
    #38 webdog, Sep 17, 2013
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Here we go.....

    John1:12-13 - "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

    What comes first?

    Those who received Jesus, who believed on his name, them he gave power, them he gave the right, to be born of God.

    It does not say that those born of God then believe.

    Then, the born of God, are not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. I can believe all day long til the cows come home and it will not regenerate me. There is nothing I can do to regenerate myself, salvation/regeneration is ALL of God.
     
    #39 steaver, Sep 17, 2013
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    How does one keep a gift they do not even have the ability nor need to accept as it would VIOLATE YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF BEING COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY PASSIVE? Sorry about the caps, hit the wrong button on my phone and don' t feel like going back to fix it.
     
    #40 webdog, Sep 17, 2013
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