Fundamental Hypocrites

[csmith]

I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist Pastor (don't throw any tomatos).

I have been in enough of the IFB circles long enough to know that we have been guilty of establishing our own righteousness. We have made rules that are not Biblically mandated, yet we enforce them in our churches.

I don't think it hurts to be introspective and honest about this problem. I also welcome non IFB to point out different failures you have noticed (whether they be practiced by IFB, SB, MB or otherwise).

Here is one: (do you know any?)

"It is a sin to go to the beach!"

 

[Britney]

well csmith I am a IFB but its not a sin to go to the beach. But to be around all of the immodesty that would be there would probably make you think of ungodly things and it would probably be adultery, and that my friend is a sin.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I agree Brtiney. It is dangerus at best to go anyplace where you know people will be immodestly dressed.

 

[csmith]

See! Here is our very problem. We as IFB categorize sin in with many "neutral" things. Of course it is wrong to submit yourself to immodesty, but submitting yourself to immodesty is not the same as going to the beach.

That would be the same as saying, "Women who wear pants are sinning because they are tight and could cause men to lust after them."

We have been guilty of assuming that an activity is sinful based on what it "could" become.

Maybe my example was a bad one. This summer I will take my family to the beach. I know of places we can go that others don't come. If you go on a Wednesday, the beach is usually deserted. We don't dress like the rest of the world. So, all of the sudden, going to the beach isn't a danger--not near as dangerous as standing in line at the grocery store anyway (magazines).

Does that make sense?

 

[av1611jim]

I also agree. In my home town we have one of those "Water Parks". You can drive by it everyday during the summer and you will see (through no fault of your own) the most skimpy outfits imaginable. We call it "The Snake Pit" LOL

It is not a sin to swim, but it sure could tempt one to sin in their heart should one swim "co-ed" in todays environment.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[csmith]

I agree with that too.

 

[4His_glory]

I think csmith has a point. Often the emphasis is place on things like going to the beach, or a TV, these are nuetral things. Sin is a heart problem, a TV, or going to the beach do not make me sin, rather I choose to sin.

I disagree with CCM, but rocky music itself is not a sin. If it was I would be in sin whenever I am in a grocery store, or take my wife out to eat.

If I willfuly listen to music that will hinder my relationship with Christ and that does not glorify God, I then am commiting sin.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by csmith:
See! Here is our very problem. We as IFB categorize sin in with many "neutral" things. Of course it is wrong to submit yourself to immodesty, but submitting yourself to immodesty is not the same as going to the beach.

That would be the same as saying, "Women who wear pants are sinning because they are tight and could cause men to lust after them."

We have been guilty of assuming that an activity is sinful based on what it "could" become.

Maybe my example was a bad one. This summer I will take my family to the beach. I know of places we can go that others don't come. If you go on a Wednesday, the beach is usually deserted. We don't dress like the rest of the world. So, all of the sudden, going to the beach isn't a danger--not near as dangerous as standing in line at the grocery store anyway (magazines).

Does that make sense?

Of course that makes sense, yet when ome says "go to the beach" your first thought is a public beach with people barely in swimsuits. I don't anyone would says its sinful to go to a beach in Ireland in the winter.

 

[csmith]

More examples

Men with beards
Women with pants
TV--as mentioned above
Theatre
Public Universities
Military
Southern Baptist Churches
Christmas Trees
Alcohol--some of my herbal medications contain vodka

This is my point. These things above are not intrinsically evil, but we have loathed them for so long that we forget that some people in some circumstances can be righteously partaking or participating.

I guess it comes down to the fact that many of us IFB have pushed our own convictions on people when we shouldn't have. I have been guilty. It drives people away.

What are convictions and standards for?

 

[dcorbett]

it is the age old battle that legalistic Christians try to put on us. You must do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do...and your walk with God is your walk with God, no ones else's.
I am not sinning when I go to the beach because I don't lust after anyone there anymore than I do anywhere else. How silly.

 

[4His_glory]

There are three ways in which Christians live:

In legalism
In licenciouness
In the liberty of Christ. Obviously this is the way we ought to strive after.

 

[IfbReformer]

Originally posted by csmith:
I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist Pastor (don't throw any tomatos).

I have been in enough of the IFB circles long enough to know that we have been guilty of establishing our own righteousness. We have made rules that are not Biblically mandated, yet we enforce them in our churches.

I don't think it hurts to be introspective and honest about this problem. I also welcome non IFB to point out different failures you have noticed (whether they be practiced by IFB, SB, MB or otherwise).

Here is one: (do you know any?)

"It is a sin to go to the beach!"

I am glad that you and man other IFB Pastors are taking internal look at their churches and the movement as a whole.I am glad that you and man other IFB Pastors are taking internal look at their churches and the movement as a whole. I have been in IFB churches my whole life(I am a member and teacher at one now) and still believe they are salvagable.

It was encouraging for me to recently talk with the Senior Pastor of and IFB church in my area who told me that he has heard of good discussions going on right now at fundamental baptist seminaries. I am really excited to see the return to our core beliefs in the next 10 years or so - God willing.

What you are talking about is the very thing my website is dedicated to http://www.ifbreformation.org

We need to get back to fundamentals, and clean out all the garbage and man-made rules that have built up over the years.

Colossians 2:20-23(NASB)

" 20 If you have died with Christ to the (BB)elementary principles of the world, (BC)why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,

21"Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"

22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

We need to stop submitting to the rules of legalism(self-made religion and commandments and teachings of men) and get back to teaching what God says. I have never said I think it is wrong for a IFB Pastor to share his opinion on an issue not expressely talked about in the scriptures - it becomes wrong though, when he fails to distinguish between his opinions on issues and what the Word of God actually says.

IFBReformer

 

[IfbReformer]

oops

 

[RockRambler]

What is the sin in a man having a beard?

Is there something wrong with me...I go to the beach with my family, go on cruises, and can honestly say I don't pay attention to the swimsuits of others. Maybe I've just grown callous or too old, but it doesn't bother me what the women are wearing at the beach or on cruise ships.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I wear a beard and have for years.

Part of my beach/swimsuit problem is that I have five sons. I may be able to train my eyes, but consider it unwise to expose my sons to near nudity.

 

[James_Newman]

Should we not be willing to give up our 'rights' if they may cause us to stumble? I know firsthand what the fruit of lusting after women is, and I know that immodest women are waiting at the beach. What's a free-willed Christian who likes to swim to do? I know that if God wants me to swim, there will be a big swimming hole in the kingdom waiting for me if I will just walk after Him for the short time that I am in this corrupt body.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by C4K:
I wear a beard and hace for years.

Part of my beach/swimsuit problem is that I have five sons. I may be able to train my eyes, but consider it unwise to expose my sons to near nudity.

I will never trust my eyes again as long as I live! Well, maybe someday, when I have cataracts, I will be able to go to the beach

 

[csmith]

There is not a thing wrong with beards. That is the point.

 

[RockRambler]

csmith, what I was asking, is why would anyone think a man wearing a beard is a sin...not necessarily now but in the past. I remember as a child hearing people saying a man shouldn't wear a beard, but never heard the reasoning.

Any one have an idea what the reasoning was???

 

[csmith]

In Bible college, our college president forbade the young men to wear beards saying that it wasn't "becoming" of a man in ministry.

There can't be a good reason for someone believing it though.

I have no clue where it all started though--makes no sense.