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Gambling

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by buckster75, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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  2. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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  3. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Say what? I never questioned your "convictions". I only pointed out your error to congratulate error.

    You say Christrians have a "right to gamble", but that "right" is a direct contradiction to the premise of faith being the rule and not the perogative.

    All I remind you of is this: a preference is just that, but a conviction is something your willing to die for. I really don't have a conviction in that sense regarding gambling, but as a conviction it is sin, yes.

    I do believe that you and JohnV are mistinterpreting the Christian liberty and misjudging the aspects to the erroneous judgement of another at meat; gambling is not liberty or is it meat, it is by defintion taking a chance on the uncertain in hopes of getting filthy lucre. Gambling is also rooted in covetousness. Now I suppose that some will tell me that it is not? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    </font>[/QUOTE]Good article, and even from a non-Baptist? And an :D MV user?
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Rubbish. Not you're backpeddling. You stated very plainly "you are addicted to gambling". That is a complete falsehood. That's what scripture calls a lie. You must retract your statement, and repent for the lie.

    I wasn't aware you had an MD that qualified you to make such a diagnosis.

    So, you can't justify your position with scripture, and have to resort to some other mode to rationalize your position. Either way, your fail.

    Since I don't gamble, that's a mott point.

    I did? Provide a post where I said I've done this. Lacking any such post, you will have no choice but to retract your statement. Because I try to be health conscious, I try to avoid fast food within reason.

    I did, however, ask if anyone thought playing the McDonald's Monopoly game was a sin (or any type of store giveaway or context. No one has replied to that post. Are you replying in the affirmative?
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    How about this for scripture to refute gambling.

    Since there is no instance of Gambing in heaven found in the Bible, but there is on earth.

    1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    playing the McDonald's Monopoly Game is not considered gambling. It is a market ploy to gain more customers and sales.

    just to change the subject just a sec, though... doncha just love the contests for candy bar companies that say, 'Instantly win 10,000 dollars. No Purchase Necessary. See details inside wrapper.' Huh???
     
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I thought there was at least a pair o' dice there.
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Well, there's no instance of people going to Disneyland in the Bible, but I do so several times per month.

    All well and good. If someone is doing anything, be it galbling, playing video games, going to Disneyland, etc, out of love of the world in lieu of love of the Father, then should refrain from that thing. That doesn't automatically make that thing a sin. Only one's utilization of it.

    Yes, I agree. But a few have noted the concept of getting something for nothing as a reason for regraining from gambling. But those people don't condemn other forms of getting something for nothing, such as store games, contexts, giveaways, or promotions. I myself am not against them, unless one becomes preoccupied with them. If that happens, tose activities should be avoided as well.
    Heheheh!!!!! Very true!!!
     
  9. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    Heated discussion. Surprised no one has brought up the casting of lots in the Old Testament and in Acts...

    Does it not come back to stewardship? God has entrusted us with funds, should we "chance" them?

    Comparing gambling to an investament or buying a house with a mortgage is not really applicable.

    In one parable Christ taught, the master reprimanded the slothful servant for not putting his "talent" into the bank that it would gain interest (Luke 19:23).

    If a friend gave you $50 would you chance it on a bet or put it into a bank for safe keeping?

    There may not be a verse that says "Thou shalt not gamble" but neither is there a verse that states "Thou shalt not smoke dope". There are principles: What we have is not ours, it is the Lord's, and we ought to use it wisely.

    I'll close with some words from Spurgeon:

    "I can never look upon dice except with abhorrence. If you ask me why; I reply,—
    Because the soldiers at the foot of the cross threw dice for my Saviour’s garments,
    and I have never heard the rattling of dice but I have conjured up the dreadful scene
    of Christ upon his cross, and gamblers at the foot of it, with their dice bespattered
    with his blood. I do not hesitate to say that, of all sins, there is none that more surely
    damns men, and, worse than that, makes them the devil’s help to damn others, than
    gambling."

    Instead of gambling give the money to your local church or buy your wife some flowers. There are two places money can go and it not be a gamble about the result.

    MNW
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Yes, it does. That's why I've been specific about gambling being permissible if, and only if, one's finances are in order, if the money used for it is money put aside for liesure or regreation, and if the gembling activity within the scope of liesure/recreation does not result in abuse. If it violates any of these, then the activity (whether it's gambling, fishing, or river rafting) should be avoided.
     
  11. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    I'll ask this question again. What's the difference between gambling and betting on the stock market especially buying on margin or buying futures or options?
     
  12. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    "Mind if I join the game, boys??"

    When I invest in the stock market----lets just say that I buy 10 shares of ExxonMobil stock selling at $50/share---for a cool $500.00 investment.

    10 shares of petroleum stock now belong to me!

    But lets just say that in 6 months time---I get a shareholder report and the stock is now worth only $49.00---a drop in value of ten smacker--reenies---not enough to make me panic just yet.

    Now---the share has gone down in value---but the share is still mine. I still have 10 shares---more if the share has paid dividends. No matter how low the share goes---I still have the shares---I cannot ever loose the share---unless of course, ExxonMobil goes "belly-up"---which I doubt will happen anytime soon.

    Now---if I take those 10 shares with me to your "Garage" where there is a "low stakes" poker game going on---and I am foolish enough to lay those 10 shares down on the table as a wager---what a fool I would be if I loose the particular hand---loose the hand and I lose my shares to you---what a stupid idiot I would be.

    The stock market is not betting or gambling---its investing---just like if I started investing in real estate---say I buy that corner lot where you work for a cool $10,000---and I decide to sit on it for a little while----say 20 years---and in 20 years time the lot I bought for 10 grand is now worth 100 grand---guess who gets the "long end" of the stick??

    But if I roll into your casino hall and plunk down a dollar on your roulett table--and my number doesn't come up---my dollar is gone forever! See??
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Amen, Blackbird!

    Investments and gambling are two different things
     
  14. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    With the general state of the world at present I would rethink my whole idea of "disposable" income. However, that is another topic.

    The difference between gambling and other forms of recreation are the chances of getting something for your money. If I go out for a meal I am guarenteed a full stomach. If I rent a movie, if the movie is suitable, I am guarenteed a relaxing couple of hours. If I gamble, well, we hae already had the definition of the word.

    As well, any one know of any Christian Casinos where alcohol, smoking, filthy music and all manner of sinful practices are not the norm?

    Blackbird has already answered well the whole investment argument.

    MNW
     
  15. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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  16. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    You do not want my personal opinion on most movies. [​IMG] Another day perhaps.

    Our personal enjoyment of an experiance must never be the standard by which we live our lives.

    Should we risk God's money which He has entrusted to us? No. Does that perhaps make us squirm when the same standard is applied to other areas of life? Praise God if it does!

    Are places of gambling normally places believers should be using for recreation? Only if you have no problem with dress standards, music standards, language etc.

    Is it right to wish hurt on another for our gain? Love thy neighbour etc.

    Is that the same as applying for a job and hoping we get it? I think James 4:13-17 answers that question in a sense. No Christian should go into an interview thinking, "I hope I get this and no one else." We should go in thinking, "If this is God's job for me then so be it. If not, then God has something else." If the Lord will...

    If location is the issue is it then okay to gamble with, I don't know, Corn Flakes in your own home with friends? I would see that as more of a gray area.

    MNW
     
  17. RayMarshall19

    RayMarshall19 New Member

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    You do not want my personal opinion on most movies. [​IMG] Another day perhaps.

    Our personal enjoyment of an experiance must never be the standard by which we live our lives.

    Should we risk God's money which He has entrusted to us? No. Does that perhaps make us squirm when the same standard is applied to other areas of life? Praise God if it does!

    Are places of gambling normally places believers should be using for recreation? Only if you have no problem with dress standards, music standards, language etc.

    Is it right to wish hurt on another for our gain? Love thy neighbour etc.

    Is that the same as applying for a job and hoping we get it? I think James 4:13-17 answers that question in a sense. No Christian should go into an interview thinking, "I hope I get this and no one else." We should go in thinking, "If this is God's job for me then so be it. If not, then God has something else." If the Lord will...

    If location is the issue is it then okay to gamble with, I don't know, Corn Flakes in your own home with friends? I would see that as more of a gray area.

    MNW
    </font>[/QUOTE]You make some excellent points. And as long as you let every Christian determine his own convictions concerning these points I would agree with you. But just because we agree doesn't mean everybody else has to.
     
  18. James Flagg

    James Flagg Member
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    I was recently at a poker party where the buy-in was 500 Corn Flakes. The winner produced a King-high flush and walked away with over 6000 Corn Flakes. He said that he will grind them into corn meal and make an effigy of Jesus. He will then sell the "statue" on eBay and use the proceeds to make a four-corner bet on the roulette wheel at Bellagio.
     
  19. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    [​IMG] I just picked Corn Flakes out of the air... Scary, other people think like I do. Anyway...

    I would think there is a danger in even casual gambling, its addictive elements can allure even the most passionate opponents. But, I do not think I could rule it out completely when it is casual and between friends.

    I would advise against it, but Christian liberty must be allowed as RayMarshall19 was saying.

    Something I learned long ago on forums is that just because I am always right I can not expect others to always agree with me. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    MNW
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That's true. Neither, however, are, in and of themselves, sin.
     
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