Gap Theory

I don't know about Gappers :tongue3:, but sin was in the world (cosmos) before Adam. Satan sinned against God and was fallen before Adam was made.

 

The preterist camp would disagree with that.

Come on, let's keep this civil. Do you really believe that we all just sit around, mock the Bible, and not actually engage in studying the Scriptures?

 

Here is a bigger problem, God said they would die in the day they ate:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Did they die that day? I wouldn't think a literal 24 hour day proponent would allow for "day" to be anything other than 24 hours.

Did they die physically? NO, they did die immediately though:


Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The death Paul was referring to was not physical.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

What scriptures? I see those who believe in the Gap presenting the opinions and writings of men. One of which said the Bible was mistranslated and that Gen 1:2 should say "became" instead of "was".

I am not saying you don't study the Bible, I hope you do. But some seem to prefer the opinions of men over the scriptures.

Hey, if you think I have misrepresented the scriptures, show me where I am wrong.

 

Adam did die that very day. He died spiritually. He and Eve suddenly realized they were naked. They were both ashamed for the very first time, and they were also fearful of God for the first time.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

I see you agree with me here. How does this prove a Gap?

 

It proves no physical death. Thank you again.

 

Except for the animal that God sacrificed to make "coverings" for Adam and Eve. I think it died physically.

 

You are welcome. We are in agreement that Adam died spiritually that day. And we know he died physically 930 years later.

But you haven't explained how this proves there was a gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

 

Amy, you are one smart girl! :thumbs:

 

So Spurgeon thinks when Jesus spoke of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel in Matt 24:15 he was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?

So, this destruction of Jerusalem was the great tribulation? Because in verse 21 Jesus said:

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Sorry, I think Spurgeon was off on this one.

 

When did Lucifer fall from Heaven?

 

I have already posted this, but I will repeat. In my opinion, Lucifer has not been cast out of heaven yet. In Ezekiel 28, all of Satan's punishments are future.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


All of these punishments are future. And we know Satan has not been destroyed and never shalt be any more as shown in vs. 19.

And we see in Job that Satan still has access to heaven.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

I personally believe that Satan will not be cast down until the events of Revelations 12 take place.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

So when Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven as lightning, I personally believe he was speaking of these future events in Revelations 12.

Luke 18:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Jesus did not tell us when he saw this. But being God, Jesus could see the future as when he told his disciples all the events of the great tribulation.

 

RE: Genesis 2:17
"thou shalt surely die" is idiomatic (IMO).

Literally is says "MOATH TAMUTH".

The root of both these words is MUTH (to die).

MOATH is the infinitive form (To die).
TA-MUTH is the imperfect form (incomplete action - you will die).

There are several ways which this can be translated and usually it is the emphatic "you shall surely die" but IMO this interpretation does not catch the proper Hebrew idomatic sense (in this sace). Even the English Tanakh does not translate this in what I believe is the proper manner.

So, this is just my opinion for what it's worth: another way to view this passage is (and I have seen older translations do it this way). In the day you eat thereof, dying you shall die.

In other words death will begin but not end on this specific day, MOATH TIMUTH is the definition of the sin and death process.

It begins with sin, and it will end with your death.

It does not necessarily mean that they will die physically on the specific day they ate the fruit but that the sin and death process would begin on that specific day.

James 1

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.​

HankD​

 

I never claimed it did. Go back and read the context of my statement and your statement about physical death.

 

Take a look at the Tabernacle (Most Holy Place),

In Hebrews:

Hebrews 9:3-4
Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant.

Hebrews 9:8
The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.

Hebrews 9:11
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.


Now in Revelation:

Revelation 11:19
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

Revelation 15:8
And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

The tabernacle's Most Holy Place is God's Temple and dwelling place. It is not of this creation and humans are not allowed to enter till after the seven trumpet.

Yet God's angels keep coming out of this place:

Revelation 14:15
Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:17
Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.


So most likely, the angels are not a part of this creation.

 

RE Exodus 20:11 Some "gap theory" proponents point out that the word here for "made" is ASAH (to make from pre-existant materials) and not BARA (call forth out of nothing) as in Genesis 1.

I read a book once by a scientist who made the claim that God first created a prototype heaven and earth as pools/fountains of sub atomic particles which were "TOHU V'BOHU" ("without form and void") then fashioned them into photons ("Let there be light") and then generated atoms and molecules out of these pools/fountains using them as building blooks. All very metaphysical.

Then after the geological aeon (a very long time), the 6 sidereal day creation began.

I forget the name of the Book and the author, I believe it was something like The Seven Fountains of Creation.

I took Modern Physics in college (Syracuse University) but it was still a really hard read.

The premise is that all matter is a form of light (photon based) and that it had to "brew" for a long long time before things shaped up for the 6 day creation of life.

This account however does not include the supposed "pre-adamic primal creation" of the Bullinger Gap Theory and also disallows the Darwinian theory of evolution of living beings. All life was brought forth in the 6 day "creation". The geological aeon only includes matter itself and happened between between Genesis 1:1-4 and Genesis 1:5.

FWIW it seemed unlikely to me. I'm going with ASAH as a functional synonym for BARA.

HankD

 

Hank

You would probably enjoy the theories of Barry Setterfield, an Austrailian physicist. He documented that the speed of light was slowing back in the late 80's. At first he was ridiculed, but since that time many secular scientists have confirmed his data. He is a Christian and believes in the six-day creation. He supports the plasma theory which really lines up with the Genesis account well.

http://www.setterfield.org/

Here is a very interesting article he wrote in layman's terms that demonstrates this plasma theory.

http://www.setterfield.org/ZPE-Plasma_model.html

 

The time line which is laid out in the Bible doesn't seem to add up with the evidence for a much older earth. In a heated debate about it once a man brought up some interesting evidence. One was how long it takes for stalactites to grow. It doesn’t make any difference how much water flows through it the evaporation is always the same leaving the same amount of Gypsum behind. It takes 100 years to grow a ½” and they have discovered stalactites over 50 feet long. That means it takes 2400 hundred years for 1 foot to grow. A stalactite 50 feet long would take 120,000 years to grow.
God could have created the stalactite to look like it was that old which would deceive us in to believing it took that long or, it actually took that long to grow. Between Gen 1:1 and through 1:2 there is no sun rise or sunset. We don’t know how long God moved upon the face of the waters. Or for that matter why he moved up on the face of the waters. The first two verses describe a flooded earth. God destroyed the earth once we know for sure with a flood. Could there have been more than one flood?
While studying some Geology I learned about some things that aren’t generally known. Like how long it takes for a forest to lay down enough vegetation to create a bed of coal 100’s of feet deep. Or how long it takes to create a diamond naturally.
I do not believe in evolution because it’s impossible for nature to create an eye by accident. Just the eye and all it’s complications tells me that there had to be a mind of supreme intelligence behind it simply because design doesn’t just happen by accident.. Yet I have to admit that this gap theory might be true. I’m not saying that is I’m just acknowledging that it is possible.
I've always believed it took 6 days But I have never been sure of how long that first day was.
MB