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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Dec 7, 2013.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Looking at it objectively

    1) I indicated (perhaps poorly) the Greek grammar is difficult, and so two variations are found in translations, the one I accept, and the one used to support the notion that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world.

    Here is the NET footnote on the issue:

    The prepositional phrase “since the foundation of the world” is traditionally translated as a modifier of the immediately preceding phrase in the Greek text, “the Lamb who was killed” (so also G. B. Caird, Revelation [HNTC], 168), but it is more likely that the phrase “since the foundation of the world” modifies the verb “written” (as translated above). Confirmation of this can be found in Rev 17:8 where the phrase “written in the book of life since the foundation of the world” occurs with no ambiguity.

    2) No, scripture teaches the opposite, that names were not written and so by inference also written, from the foundation of the world. The time span would then start during the creation week and extend until the end of time, because the whole span is from or since or after creation.

    3) According to Calvinism, individuals were chosen before the foundation of the world (in Eternity past) but Revelation 13:7 teaches the names were only entered after creation. Thus the verse (Rev. 13:7) indicates a time of selection after rather than before creation.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    So Sorryh

    In my view, it is Calvinism that is "bogus." From the foundation does not mean during creation or before creation, but rather any time after the foundation of the world.

    Scripture teaches Christ paid the ransom for all, and became the propitiation for the whole world. When any individual is placed in Christ, their sin burden is removed (the circumcision of Christ) and since the individual had be of the world (fallen human) that removal "takes away the sin (singular) of the world.

    Calvinism is a doctrine of disgrace, thanks for the apt descriptor.
     
    #42 Van, Dec 12, 2013
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  3. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    balderdash, pure and simple. and on what do you base that ? YOUR wisdom, YOUR view ?
    But no matter when, THE FACT STAYS.
    Names were written FROM the foundation of the world, which means waaaaaayyy before any of those persons or souls bearing those names came into existence, and THE FACT stays, those names were not written IN RESPONSE to any action of those persons, but despite them.
    And the FACT STAYS, the redemptive sacrifice of Christ, and His shed blood, was for those who owned those names.
    they are the ALL, they are the ones PLACED IN CHRIST FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.


    The poo stays in your camp.
     
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