George W. Gore

Do JWs not vote either? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and a while .

 

I do not think that you fully understand the stance that many here are taking against your posts. We do not deny scripture that states God establishes the powers that be. The POTUS is a represented power of the People as established by the Constitution. Surely you understand that the Constitution is our contract with each other that this is the law of the land giving the People the right to determine who succeeds as President, Judge, Senator, Representative, Governor and etc. God therefore works through the voting public (the sustained power established by God) to establish the representation that we deserve.

Now as this thread suggests, it is likely that the global move to subjugate nations established by God, to an authority of global rule by fear of global warming. They suggest that man has messed things up and man must unite to make things right because man is destroying the planet. Thus usurping God, who ultimately has the ability to destroy this world and then restore it to it's first state of sinless perfection. The leaders that represent the true power (the people, whom God had established) are in rebellion and are subject to our voices through our vote. If anyone shirks that responsibility they have rebelled and are in rebellion from God's established form of government for us.

 

If that is true then "why" do you feel the need to "vote"? Do you think God "needs" your vote? Do you think God can't operate without the vote of "Christians"?

Yes I'm very well aware of that. What I fail to understand is why you and others feel you need to join in the process when there is no mandate in Scripture to concern ourselves with the governments of this world other than to pray for them and obey them so long as they are not asking us to do something against God's will or not do something that is God's will.

I see no Scriptural evidence that we "need", "must" be involved in this realm. And when this subject is brought up with believers there is never Scriptural evidence for their stance.

We are in this world, but we are not "of" this world. We have no business involving ourselves in politics. There is no Scriptural mandate for it that I can see.

WOW. Now folks that don't vote are in rebellion to God. That's funny. So I guess if you vote against the man/woman God has chosen that's okay right? No worries. Just give it a better go on the next round huh?

 

John 17:14-19
14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Non involvement?
16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. Non involvement?
19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

So, we who have been empowered by decree of the Constitution are not to interfere with policies that could cause the death of many innocent lives.
Well then slavery would still be the law of the land then.
We would still be subject to the British Crown, who would be subject to the Pope.
Your reasoning is beyond hope. We are yet in the world and we are to influence it when given the chance.


Matthew 5:13-16
13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Non involvement?
14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Non involvement?
15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Non involvement?
16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Non involvement?

I will not sit idle and let the government take my earnings that God has blessed me with and fund clinics that are the sole practice of murdering the unborn. I will take means to rescue women that are in distress and provide for the legal adoption of their child if it is not wanted. I will vote. If and when my vote (my empowerment) is removed then I shall die for the above reasons. Here in is salt and light.
I will not sit idle and allow the homosexual agenda be taught to my children and grandchildren as simply an alternative life style. I will vote. If and when my vote (my empowerment) is removed then I shall die for the above reasons. Here in is salt and light.
I will not sit idle and allow my earnings that God has blessed me with and have it taken by force to be given to an organization that sits itself above man and God to "save the earth." I will vote. If and when my vote (my empowerment) is removed then I shall die for the above reasons. Here in is salt and light.

If therefore I am in rebellion in the eyes of those like you then I will carry my rebellion to my grave while you submit to slavery.

 

Voting is NOT salt and light. Telling people about the good news of the Lamb of God and the Son of God is salt and light.

I heard this the other day and I really like it. I can't remember where I heard it or what I was listening to, but it said evangelicals' involvement in politics today is because of a failed attempt to teach people righteous living in the church. And that is spot on.

You are trying to legislate morality and it WILL NEVER work. You can't force people to do the right thing, and trying to do so through "man" made means is futile and a waste of time.

If you want to "change" things then use the Sword of the Lord! His Living Word is the ONLY thing that will change people. Laws and voting do not change people.

We can take a stand against the ills of this world without voting.

Whether or not you are in rebellion is "my" eyes doesn't mean diddly squat. You need to care whether or not you are in rebellion in the Eyes of the Almighty God! He and He alone matters!!!

And no one has yet to explain how voting against God's chosen is "not" rebellion. Do you have an answer for that?

 

Ok then, Let's start throwing out morality then.

Murder your neighbor. I'd love to see what becomes of that society.

No more marriage laws. We think that we have problems with kids today?

No longer require anyone to be truthful on the witness stand. Whole cities would become prisons.

Covet and acquire all that you can possess. Wal Mart et al would indeed be the rule. But then again they would not be able to stop shoplifting.

Yea, we can not have those evil evangelicals forcing morality upon us.

 

Really? The death penalty sure has done away with the murders hasn't it? Uh wait NO it hasn't.

There are laws that you can't steal. Surely that one has taken care of all the thieves. Uh wait NO it hasnt.

The list could go on and on and on and on. So exactly how "absurd" is it to say that just by making laws doesn't mean you are going to make people do the right thing.

People don't even follow a simple law of buckling their seat belts when they drive.

Scripture NEVER tells us that change comes via the government. To think that is absurd.

Of course they are. They are trying to get people to live the right way. But it doesn't work. If it did we would have all the crime that we have across the globe.

Now I can't wait to see what assumptions you all make on what I have just said.

 

Well I didn't even have to wait very long . Nowhere in my statements did I say that all laws should be done away with. Of course we have to have laws or it would be crazy.

My "point" was that "laws" don't make people behave the right way. If that was the case we wouldn't have the crime that we have.

Let's take the hot button issues of abortion and homosexuality since the current evils exist in only these two sins . When abortions were illegal did it stop people from getting them? No it didn't.

Would I be happy if they passed such a law. Sure I would. But that doesn't mean people are going to change. It just means people are going to find different ways of going about it.

I may be mistaken on this, but I believe there are still several states that have active laws on their books that it is illegal to commit acts of homosexuality. However that has done nothing to stop the rise of homosexuality in this country.

Laws don't fix people. Jesus is the ONLY Person that can "fix" people. To think that you can legislate people into behaving properly is to be naive of the human condition.

Look at the children of Israel. They had the law. Sure didn't make them act properly did it?

What makes you think people in the US of A are better than those led out of Egypt by the miracles of God Almighty Himself?

 

Why are you here? Youv'e brought nothing to the table worth debating as far I'm concerned.

So, Why are you here? You obviously know nothing of how this republic is supposed work. And when confronted on it you suddenly hide behind the "I'm in the world not of it" like it shields you from all personal responsibility. Wrong!

While you are still on this soil you are responsible to both obey and uphold the land of the land. That's God's will. Go look it up.

Don't try to hide your ignorance with sarcasm either it makes you seem even more ignorant than you might actually be. I don't have to say anymore because while you're there hidding fearlessly behind your keypad...you know I'm right.:smilewinkgrin:

Toodles.

 

To take a stand for Truth. Why are you here?

Oh well pardon me for not meeting "your" standards :laugh:

Really. Just because I say Scripture doesn't mandate that we vote I don't know how this republic works. Okay. Keep the laughs coming.

I never said I don't have personal responsibility. Making false statements about someone just because you don't like what they have to say is not very Christ-like.

I have a responsibility to pray for my leaders, and I have a responsibility to obey the laws of the land so long as they don't ask me to do something God said I shouldn't or not do something that God said I am to do.

Outside of that there is no Scriptural-given responsibility that I have to any government. If there is where is the Scripture texts that say so?

I don't need to "look it up". That's EXACTLY what I have been saying. It is not a law that I vote. Therefore I am breaking no law of the land by not voting. I am not skirting any God-given responsibility according to the Scriptures.

It amazes me how vile "adults" will get when they can defend their positions and are called on it. It's no wonder people don't want to have anything to do with "Christianity". We can't even get along with each other. Sad.

That really gave me a good laugh. I nearly had to pick myself off the ground.

 

Newbies.

 

Some pencils just don't sharpen.

HWIT, perhaps if you weren't so quick to get all pious & start the silly, off topic argument that you did, we'd all get along better.

 

Cause you think your childish name calling helps do that . Okay.

I love it when people actually take a stand for God's word the labels just start flying. Cracks me up.

May be OT, but certainly I think attention needed to be drawn to it.

It is not our job to speak against our leaders. Micahel didn't even speak against Satan, but said "the Lord rebuke you."

Why can't we just let God do what He said He was going to do without meddling?

 

Not goint to waste much time, but you did come here into this thread starting trouble. That much is clear.

You haven't taken a stand, you've added another sin into scripture, actually, two or three sins.

What happened to people who spoke out back then ? Was it against their law to do so ? It's not, for us. there is nothing wrong with talking about our leaders, and you haven't proved by scripture that it is.

Voting isn't meddling. It's participating. For you to call it sin is to add to scripture, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that.

 

Yeah I know. Unfortunately when you stand for Truth it is always met with trouble, because folks like the darkness more than they want the Light. It's always been that way and will continue to be that way through the end of the age.

Well we all know the saying about opinions now don't we .

Do you have Scripture where it says it's okay to speak against the leaders of the day? No. What you turn to is a secular piece of paper to justify your actions.

Do you have a single example where Christ spoke out against the government of the day? I find none. So it's okay for us, but Christ chose not to do it. Hmmm doesn't sound very convincing to me.

It most certainly is when you vote against the winner! I wouldn't call voting a "sin" if you got lucky and voted for the right person. But I don't see how you can call open active rebellion against Almighty God anything but sin.

If you vote against the winner you purposefully and willfully acted directly opposite to the will of God. If that isn't sin I don't know what is.

 

HWIT, you keep standing up, OK ? I'm all done with you.

:wavey:

 

Aw shucks . . . I was so looking forward to you calling me some more names. :wavey: Take care!