God and free will

[Hobie]

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.

 

[MB]

No one disputes you. You have spoken truth and they can't see it.
MB

 

[Titus Tarnum]

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.

Are you familiar with the "Forth Article of the Remonstrance" concerning Prevenient Grace?

I believe in a will unleashed from sin by God so we can do exactly what He wants us to do!

...and I LOVE your enthusiasm!

 

[Iconoclast]

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.

Free will is a false carnal philosophy. It does not exist.
We make choices.
We have self will.
Our will is never free to sin.
Once saved we are only free to serve

 

[AustinC]

Does God Give People Free Will?

No, God doesn’t give people free will if you take it to mean that they can choose anything they want. I would define free will as this: every human being has the freedom to choose whatever sin he wants. That’s free will. You can choose whatever sin you want to choose, you just can’t choose not to sin.

So yes, there’s free will, but there’s only free will within the framework of depravity and corruption. The one thing you can choose is to get out of there. For that, you have to cry for the mercy and grace of God to extract you, which God does by His own sovereign love and power.

Sinners think they have free will, but the Bible defines sinners as being in bondage to sin. It is a bondage to sin so profound that the only thing they can choose is which sin to commit.



This transcript is from a live Ask Ligonier event with John MacArthur and has been lightly edited for readability. To ask Ligonier a biblical or theological question, just visit Ask.Ligonier.org or message us on Facebook or Twitter.

 

[AustinC]

How is Limited Atonement True When Scripture Says Christ Died for the Whole World?

We know Jesus is the Savior of the world because there’s only one Savior for the world. The world has only one Savior, but we also know the atonement is limited. We all know that, right?

The atonement is limited because people go to hell. Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount: “Many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and I will say to them, ‘Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you’” (Matt. 7:22–23). Jesus talked more about hell then He did about heaven. We know that hell is a reality, and we know people go there and perish forever. So, we all believe in a limited atonement, right? Not everybody’s going to be saved.

You either believe in a limited atonement, or you believe in a universal atonement. If you believe in a universal atonement, to be logically consistent, then there’s no hell and no one will be in hell; everyone will be in heaven. If you affirm an unlimited atonement, then you really are going to end up as a universalist. If Jesus actually died for the whole world, then the whole world is saved. So, we can’t go there because there is a hell and it’s full of people, in fact, most people.

The atonement is limited. The question is, Who limits it? Do we limit it or does God limit it? The answer to that question, biblically, is crystal clear: God limited it. He limited it to the elect. Either God determined whom He would save and takes the glory, or God just threw atonement out there as some nebulous option and hoped some people would grab hold of it and become a part of His redeeming purpose. The Bible does not allow for that. So, you just need to remind yourself that you believe in a limited atonement.

Now, you ask the question, are men sovereign or is God sovereign? If God’s sovereign, then He limited it.



This transcript is from a live Ask Ligonier event with John MacArthur and has been lightly edited for readability. To ask Ligonier a biblical or theological question, just visit Ask.Ligonier.org or message us on Facebook or Twitter.

 

[AVL1984]

This continuous

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.[/QUOTE

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.

 

[AVL1984]

This was one subject that made me decide to leave Facebook and it's Southern Baptist forum I am one who will never give my position on this subject away, but I do have to say that it seems a fruitless argument for Christians to continue having after nearly 400 years. It seems to me that the Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists are somewhat haughty in their approach to Christians who hold the "Free Will" viewpoint, and the "Free-Willies" are just as disagreeable. It's a very divisive subject, and I'm not against debate on the subject. I am, however, against one side stating the other cannot or isn't saved because they don't hold the same view as the others. I hope it's more civil in here.

 

[Yeshua1]

We were not created to be mindless humans or robots, we were made with freewill and minds to exercise it. God has told His saints to chose out of freewill to reach out and spread the gospel to the entire world. It’s what we have been called to do. Spreading the truth about Jesus and what He has done for us, what He is doing now for us, and what He will do for us in the future is our mission.

It originated in the heart of God. It is based on the love of God. And it is accomplished by the will of God and we see the following in scripture.

God created men and women and gave them free will.
The first man and woman abused their free will by disobeying God, and they had to leave Paradise.
God could not use force to bring them back to Paradise.
God sent His Son on a mission to die in their place and reconcile them to Him.
God’s mission is to make the offer of salvation known to all people and, thus, open the way for them to have Redemption.

At its most basic level, the love for others and love of God, is letting the whole world know about Jesus and about what He has done for each of us and about what He promises to do for us, now and for eternity.

ONLY God Himself has absolute free will!

 

[MB]

This was one subject that made me decide to leave Facebook and it's Southern Baptist forum I am one who will never give my position on this subject away, but I do have to say that it seems a fruitless argument for Christians to continue having after nearly 400 years. It seems to me that the Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists are somewhat haughty in their approach to Christians who hold the "Free Will" viewpoint, and the "Free-Willies" are just as disagreeable. It's a very divisive subject, and I'm not against debate on the subject. I am, however, against one side stating the other cannot or isn't saved because they don't hold the same view as the others. I hope it's more civil in here.

Truth is always divisive
MB

 

[AVL1984]

Truth is always divisive
MB

I'm well aware of how truth can be divisive. I'm also aware that things that cannot be decisively proven one way or the other, the Bible tells us not to waste our time on them, as they aren't being profitable. Both sides believe they have the truth and have Scriptures that support their views. Yet, neither side can decisively prove their point. It basically one group trying to steamroll over the other. I find it UNNECESSARILY divisive when there are other things we as Christians should be doing, such as preaching the Gospel and making disciples. This detracts, IMHO.
BT

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm well aware of how truth can be divisive. I'm also aware that things that cannot be decisively proven one way or the other, the Bible tells us not to waste our time on them, as they aren't being profitable. Both sides believe they have the truth and have Scriptures that support their views. Yet, neither side can decisively prove their point. It basically one group trying to steamroll over the other. I find it UNNECESSARILY divisive when there are other things we as Christians should be doing, such as preaching the Gospel and making disciples. This detracts, IMHO.
BT

Also ironic to me that we as Christians can argue all the time about things such as timing of second coming and wheat bible to use or what mode of water baptism, and yet hardly anything on the things that we all can agree upon!

 

[utilyan]

Common Guys who we kidding? God can't make other beings with free will, Calvinist already know and made it very clear, God is too stupid to pull that off.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus Christ have free will? If the answer is Yes, then he is not 100% human.

 

[AustinC]

This was one subject that made me decide to leave Facebook and it's Southern Baptist forum I am one who will never give my position on this subject away, but I do have to say that it seems a fruitless argument for Christians to continue having after nearly 400 years. It seems to me that the Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists are somewhat haughty in their approach to Christians who hold the "Free Will" viewpoint, and the "Free-Willies" are just as disagreeable. It's a very divisive subject, and I'm not against debate on the subject. I am, however, against one side stating the other cannot or isn't saved because they don't hold the same view as the others. I hope it's more civil in here.

Your comments actually show your theological position. It's the same as the majority of evanjellyfish in the United States. Trolling the shallows gets tiresome for a Christian whom God is disciplining and raising to be his child. It's better to take the gift God gives and grow it rather than dig a hole and leave it there to someday dig out and present to God.
I encourage you to grow your theology and speak it. Iron sharpens iron.

 

[AVL1984]

Your comments actually show your theological position. It's the same as the majority of evanjellyfish in the United States. Trolling the shallows gets tiresome for a Christian whom God is disciplining and raising to be his child. It's better to take the gift God gives and grow it rather than dig a hole and leave it there to someday dig out and present to God.
I encourage you to grow your theology and speak it. Iron sharpens iron.

Thank you very much. I can and HAVE argued both positions, and others to boot. I don't insult very easily, but thanks for trying!

 

[SGO]

Give 'em Heaven!

Where are the bible citations to back your positions?

Oh, that's right, there is the choice whether to WILL to use the bible, or not.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Today, April 23, 2021, is a very special day for me. Why? It was on April 23 in 1966 that the finished work of Jesus adopted me into the Family of God. Before that day, I was, like the man I'm named, was #1 on the Chiefest of Sinner's list. It wasn't so much that I committed any horrendous sin, rather I was a sinner, one who try as I might, would still miss that a thrice-Holy God had established before I was even born: THE Righteousness of His Son. I was blind; in fact, I wasn't primarily looking for salvation that evening in the AZ city of Tucson. I merely came to hear John A Stormer, the author of None Dare Call It Treason speak at the Metropolitan Baptist Church. I didn't know this at the time but later found out that when he wrote that paperback book in 1964, that he wasn't a saved man. "BUT GOD," one year later saved him through the same shed Blood of His Son. Soon after he received Christ as his Personal Savior, he became an evangelist for those who'd read his best-selling (Despite the NY Time's not publishing anything good about it.) book & knew that "In Your Hearts, You Know He's Right" (A campaign slogan for AZ Sen Barry Goldwater attempt for winning the POTUS slot). I KNEW that fact but knowing the truth wasn't my real need...MY need was to trust in the one who IS the TRUTH! For as far back as this not-quite-20 YO person could recall, never once did I hear "YE must be Born Again." The ultra-liberal church in which my parents brought me was a social gospel one. Its pastor was a graduate of Harvard Div School, not exactly a bastion of evangelical truth. In fact, as a child, I thought he was talking about the plusses of being an ANTI Baptist when he was on the subject of denominational distinctives! John Stormer DID give an analysis of how far we'd gone down the tubes from 1964 to 1966, but then he talked about THE solution for this. It was then when I first heard that cry of repentance & faith in Jesus. Up to that time I merely thought that if one was dissatisfied with a church's teaching, you just merely shop around for one that did, like a person would do if he was dissatisfied with his current car. Even the invitation passage the Holy Spirit used was not one of a strictly "spiritual" text...."Come out from among them and be ye separate!" from 2 Cor 6:17. That was all I thought I needed to do. But when the pastor, Bro Bill Bowler asked me if I was "Born Again," I was just like Nicodemus. Born A WHAT?? Reger WHAT? Then one of MBC's elders took me aside and told me to put my name in John 3:16 where it reads "Whosoever." Then and there the Good Sheperd birthed me! That was 55 years ago. My almost 75 YO memory often has failed me, but, as the old song goes, "I was there when it happened, so I ought to know." If you're reading this lengthy post but don't have Jesus Christ in your heart & life, don't put it off! It worked for me, that confused teenager that I was (& STILL am!), and HE'll do the same for you. I don't remember much about my physical birth (I was kinda young at that time.), but I hope that I'll always recall my REbirthday! There's a children's "Answer Song" to "Happy Birthday" that we'd sing on the buses of which I was once Captain that has truth to it: "Happy Birthday to you! Only one will not do! "Born Again" means salvation...How many have you?" Selah.

 

[AVL1984]

Give 'em Heaven!

Where are the bible citations to back your positions?

Oh, that's right, there is the choice whether to WILL to use the bible, or not.

To whom are you addressing your comments, SGO? If it was to me, I have defended both sides of this issue not only on this board in years gone by, but, I had done so on the FFF and several other forums that have long since gone defunct. The great thing is that I don't owe anyone but God in Heaven and explanation. HE knows what I believe on the subject. I try to play the peacemaker and bring both sides together on such a divisive subject. If it's not been resolved in 400+ years, it's pretty clear that it's not going to be resolved here on these boards! Have a great weekend. Blessings.

 

[canadyjd]

I would define “free-will” as a will that is free from any influence. That is, a person sees the choices (good or evil) and makes a decision without any other influence in that decision.

That was, of course, the second lie of Satan in the garden. The first was Eve wouldn’t surely die.

The second was that she would be “like God” in knowing good and evil. Only God has the free will to choose good over evil without any other influence.

peace to you