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Featured God's Children Were Never "Heirs of Hell"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Nov 9, 2023.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:1-6 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved; ) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

    I beg, however, to detain the Reader one moment longer, just to call his attention to the expression of the Apostle, when speaking of the former state of the Church, before being quickened by the Spirit; he saith, that they were by nature children of wrath even as others. By which we may suppose, he could not possibly mean, that they were children of God's wrath, when he had before, in the preceding Chapter, said so many blessed things, of their being chosen of God, to be holy, and without blame before him in love; being, predestinated to the adoption of children, by Jesus Christ to himself, and accepted in the Beloved. See Ephesians 1:4-6. It is impossible that such could have ever been the children of God's wrath; though when born in the Adam-nature of a fallen state, were justly exposed to God's wrath, and but for their sonship in Christ, and acceptation in him, must have suffered the punishment due to sin, But it should seem, that the Apostle's meaning is, they were by nature, children deserving wrath, even as others. And, moreover, by the fall, were also of wrathful, tempers, and dispositions; and, as Paul elsewhere said of himself, and all others like himself, while in a state of unregeneracy, were living in malice and envy; hateful, and hating one another. Titus 3:3. I thought it proper to state this to the Reader, for some, for want of attention to this grand feature of our holy faith, in our grace-union with Christ, by GOD's choice from all eternity; have been led away with the too common phrase of calling God's children as if once heirs of hell, and children of the devil. Blessed, be God! they never were so, though children deserving wrath; yet in Christ, saved with an everlasting salvation. And the gift of the Spirit is, because they are sons, and not to make them so. See Galatians 4:6.

    - excerpt from Robert Hawker's The Poor Man's Commentary on Ephesians 2:1-6
     
    #1 KenH, Nov 9, 2023
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    This truth proves the title of this thread to be false.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I take full responsibility for the title that I placed for this thread when I posted it.

    The status of God's elect was set when He chose them before the foundation of the world and gave them to His Son to be their Surety. However, even God's elect, prior to the Holy Spirit regenerating them, in their state are just like the reprobates; but there was never any possibility that any of God's elect would be lost. Thus, their inheritance was never, ever going to be in Hell; rather, their inheritance was always to spend eternity in the new heavens and earth in the presence of God.

    I find great comfort in this as it means that all of those decades that I wandered about falsely trying to establish my own righteousness as the basis for my acceptance with God that, in reality, my status with God was really never in doubt even while my state was absolutely deplorable. Even now, my flesh is still absolutely deplorable but my flesh does not determine my relationship with God; thus, I can say with the apostle Paul, "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:22-25)
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But the major disagreement is when those chosen one's became the elect. That disagreement is another discussion.

    I agree God's children are never "heirs of Hell"
     
    #4 37818, Nov 9, 2023
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  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is quite clear; thus among God's elect, they should have full confidence that ALL of their salvation is based on Christ and His finished work ALONE as their Surety, and based on nothing in or of or by themselves - Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him.

    (emphasis mine)
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Those saved Ephesians are God's elect. The disagreement being, not all reader's of said text believe that teaches they were elect when they were chosen.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I see no difference between God's elect(as in election in which God has the only vote - if I may describe it in terms that we humans are accustomed to in democratic forms of earthly governments) and God's chosen(in which God is the only One choosing). If one is elected, then he is chosen; if one is chosen, then he is elected.
     
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  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 9: 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


    Brother Glen:)
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well the facts remain, the chosing God did and the election are two distinct acts of God, not the same act.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain your position?
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. For reference, both terms are used once together in one Scripture, Mark 13:20. States the elect are chosen.

    We know from Ephesians 1:4 they have been chosen before time.

    Now here is the key difference. My understanding is the eiection itself follows the calling in time. And that calling can be made sure of. See 2 Peter 1:10, ". . . Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ." There are other passages.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If you could clarify, please, are you saying that salvation is in some way dependent on man?
     
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  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Right!!
     
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  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    It is!... Brother Glen;)

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
     
    #14 tyndale1946, Nov 10, 2023
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  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the God-Man.
     
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  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    :Thumbsup:Thumbsup... Brother Glen
     
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  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John 3:18, ". . . He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . ." Etc.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You should consider the source of who gives a believer the willingness to believe, where the power comes from.
     
  19. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Psalm 110: 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    Brother Glen:)
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10:17, ". . . faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. . . ."
     
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