1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Has ALL Humanity Been Given a Measure of Faith?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I leave you to God and your conscience. It is clear that you are questioning the King. The answer, then, will come from the King. (Romans 14).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am questioning you
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Faith from God has both substance and evidence. Such faith empowers the believer to walk in the Spirit resist the devil, and boldly approach the throne of Grace.

    This measure of faith from God is also of sufficient substance that the evidence of work can be seen as James discusses.

    IMO, These are not two separate faiths, but a single endowment given to believers as is recorded in John 1, “to them gave He the right (ἐξουσίαν - power, capacity, authority, …) to become the children of God”

    Without this God given authority, there would be no salvation, and in my own opinion, is is that endowment of faith.

    “For we are His workmanship…”
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not true. You are surmising an if/then scenario where you accuse God. Essentially, if you are not correct and I am correct, then God is evil simply because you can't imagine God having the gospel shared universally while choosing particularly. If God did that, then you have openly said that God is unfair. That is you accusing God if he doesn't do things according to your demand.
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    what is the Gospel? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:

    Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importancea: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

    So, the Gospel, or Good News, is "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures", and by receiving this, a sinner is saved.

    If God wants the whole world, that is, every single person, to hear this Good News, then this must mean that God has made provision for the sins of the whole world, without exception, in the Death of Jesus Christ! We cannot tell the whole world, that we have Good News for them, "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures", and then say that, sorry, this is not available for ALL, as Jesus actually came to die for an save only the elect! This is not Good News, but BAD NEWS!!! And also very cruel.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Good News is this:
    Romans 5:6-11 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    God is perfect in telling us to go to the world.
    Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
    Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

    Yet, God is very clear that he has elected, chosen and adopted from before the foundation of the world.
    Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
    Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
    Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

    This is a paradox. Both exist in perfect harmony and truth. We preach universally and God chooses particularly. God does not tell us why. We are his servants. We do his bidding. We leave to God what is God's to do. We don't challenge him or question him. We trust that His word is perfect and good and we share what God's word says...even if we don't understand why God chooses the means and methods he chooses.

    From my perspective, you are directly challenging God and His word by telling him that it cannot be simply because you cannot make sense of why God chooses to do what he does. The problem is in your heart. You refuse to accept what God tells you. For that issue, I entrust you to God who is your Master and will correct you on your path. I hold no animosity toward you. You are a brother even though we do not agree.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God does not tell us why, because what you suggest is not from God in the first place, and at odds with the Teaching of the Holy Bible. What you say is "theology", but this is not Biblical theology, but rather that of the Reformed/Calvinists.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You realize I just provided passages confirming what I said, yet you say it is wrong.
    Again, the problem lies squarely upon you and no one else.
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I too can provide multiple verses from the Bible to refute what you say. However neither of us will change because of what we believe. Only one of us can be right.
     
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul ask in the opening of Romans concerning a part of this teaching.
    3What if some did not have faith?
    Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness?
    4Certainly not! Let God be true and every man a liar.

    As it is written:
    “So that You may be proved right when You speak
    and victorious when You judge.”

    But if our unrighteousness highlights the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
    That God is unjust to inflict His wrath on us?
    I am speaking in human terms.
    6Certainly not!
    In that case, how could God judge the world?
    Ultimately, (imo) part of the resolution to this conflict must resolve to what gives God the glory?

    For the whole matter of salvation be in His purpose, or to present a hopeful God in which salvation is left up to failed humanity in which everyone has already purposely chose to rebel.

    When after a thousand years of Christ ruling this earth and Satin is turned loose only a few months, do the people rally to the Christ? No, just as in the beginning and in every situation, humans rebel.

    Paul goes on in Romans to show the effects of rebellion.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I provided passages, in context, for you. This is not some cherrypicking to create my own flavors.
    For my part, I once held your view so I know that people can change and I know that our King is more than capable of directing his servants, of which I count us both to be. Therefore our King will guide us both and correct us both when need be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    as long as we are open to being taught by the Holy Spirit, His Truth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,863
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Personally, I wouldn't know if it's "Reformed / Calvinist" theology or not,
    as I had never studied the works of John Calvin or the Reformers before I started seeing this for myself in the Bible during my own private studies.

    Having grown up in an Independent Baptist church from the age of 12 when I first believed the Gospel in 1978 through the preaching of God's word,
    attending a Baptist Christian school for over 2 years in high school, was involved in AWANA and other activities as a teenager,
    and was part of other Independent Fundamental Baptist circles for well over 25 years,
    I still came to all of this apart from ( and in spite of ) what I was taught in and by those places.

    In other words, just because you consider it as not being from God in the first place ( or that you do not see it in the Bible for yourself ),
    does not mean that there aren't other people that do.

    SBG, with all due respect to you,
    declaring over and over that "it's not in the Bible" is denying that someone can actually read the Bible for themselves and come up with it for themselves, exactly as I have over the last 18+ years.
    Like any other doctrine that is held by people ( whether in error or in truth ),
    people can and do read His word and come up with understandings that are genuinely arrived at through no outside assistance.

    For example,
    I've seen many come to agree with "Wesleyanism" and loss of salvation... others, "Traditionalism" ...
    and a very few I've met in my own area have even been convinced of what is commonly called "Calvinism"...
    All through their own, private studies in His word.

    I assure you, repeating the statement that "it's not Biblical" or that it's "at odds with the teachings of the Holy Bible" over and over,
    does not do away with the fact that there actually are those who embrace what you see as "Calvinism" as the truth, my friend...

    and they did so because they were convinced of it through the Scriptures,
    not because they were coerced into it by peer pressure or lured into it through influential teachers.
     
    #113 Dave G, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...