1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Hebrews 1:3

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, May 3, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,094
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here is the NASB rendering of Hebrews 1:3:
    And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,​

    1) What is being said with "And He is the radiance of His glory?" "And He" refers back to verse 2 where "He" is identified as the Son. I think the NASB interpretation of "radiance" refers to light emanating from a bright source, thus the Son radiates "glory." The verse does not say the Son radiates God the Father's glory as in reflected light. It just refers to "glory" and leaves to interpretation if the glory is His own, or the glory that comes from God the Trinity, or something else.

    2) What does "the exact representation of His nature" mean? "Exact representation" refers to an image or emblem of something. "Of His" refers to God the Father, and "nature" refers to the foundational quality or essence of God, i.e. creator, holy, just, loving and so forth.

    3) What does "upholds all things by the word of His power" mean? Here I think the phrase means God the Son sustains every created thing by the power of His command. That is why when He says for the wind to stop, the wind stops! This also conveys the idea that God the Son is "all-powerful" another foundational quality.

    4) What does "when He made purification of sins" mean? Here we need to look at Hebrews 10:12 where it appears the same action is being referred to as making, for all time, one sacrifice for sins. Many translations indicate purified or purged sins, rather than providing the means of purification.

    5) "He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" does not seem to me to be open to alternate meanings.

    Stringing together the interpretive phrases, "and the Son radiates glory and represents God's foundational quality, sustaining everything by the power of His command. After He provided the means of purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high."
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus said He'd return IN GREAT POWER & GLORY.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,094
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes,
    Mark 13:26
    “Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

    Alternately, in Matthew 24:30 He comes with power and great glory.

    Both references appear to be a citation of Daniel 7:13, with the "son of man" being a reference to the Messiah.
     
    #3 Van, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  4. Origen

    Origen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    36
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also see:

    There is no one like the God of Jeshurun,
    who rides across the heavens to help you
    and on the clouds in his majesty. (NIV Deut 33:26)

    Sing to God, sing in praise of his name,
    extol him who rides on the clouds;
    rejoice before him—his name is the LORD. (NIV Psa 68:4)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,094
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 12:36 “While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”
    Ephesians 5:8 "for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ..."
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,620
    Likes Received:
    3,592
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One of my favorite books of the Bible to teach. We spent over a year working through Hebrews and never finished.

    It is interesting that the word ἀπαύγασμα (translated “radiance”) and the word χαρακτήρ (“exact representation”) are only used in the bible in this passage. The presentation of the Son as the “radiance” of God’s glory and the “exact representation” of His being are statements affirming the same truth.

    When the author of Hebrews speaks that the Son is the “radiance” or “reflection” of God’s glory and the “representation “ of his being it is easy in a modern context to see this as presenting Jesus Christ in some way inferior to God. I believe this is far from the truth because the Arthur consistently ascribes to Jesus actions and a nature that identifies Him with God. And just a few verses later the writer confirms this conclusion in verse 8. At the same time this “exact representation” presents a distinction between God the Father and God the Son.

    I do not believe that the Son radiates the Father’s glory but that the Son radiates glory that is His own because He is God.

    I believe you are right about the Son sustaining every created thing by the word of His power. I believe this corresponds with John’s statement that “in Him was life” and “nothing was made apart from Him”, and perhaps Paul’s comments in Colossians 1:17 that “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together”

    Here is how I view the phrases (how I would arrange for a study):

    Who
    ..... Being the radiance of God’s gloryT

    ............... The exact representation of his being
    ..... Sustaining all things by his powerful word
    ................ Having provided purification for sins
    ...... Sat down at the right hand of the Majesty
    ............ Having become as much superior to the angles
     
  9. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The sons of God were light beings, made in God's image. It is our spirit that was the light image. The angels are the stars, bright lights in the sky.

    God was the bright light in the cloud on Mt. Sinai. If there were no clouds, the children of Israel would have been blinded.

    When Moses came down, they had to cover his face, because the brightness of his head was too much. Exodus 34:29-35

    29 ¶ So when Moses came down from mount Sinai, the two Tables of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand, as he descended from the mount: (now Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone bright, after that God had talked with him).
    30 And Aaron and all the children of Israel looked upon Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone bright, and they wereafraid to come near him.
    31 But Moses called them: and Aaron and all the chief of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
    32 And afterward all the children of Israel came near, and he charged them with all that the Lord had said unto him in mount Sinai.
    33 So Moses made an end of communing with them, before the Lord to speak with him, he took off the covering until he came out: then he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
    35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, how the skin of Moses’ face shone bright: therefore Moses put the covering upon his face, until he went to speak with God.

    On the mount of transfiguration; Moses and Elijah both appeared in bodies of bright light.

    Revelation 21:23

    " And their city hath no need of the Sun, neither of the Moon to shine in it: for the glory of God did light it: and the Lamb is the light of it."
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is a false teaching, not to be taken lightly, John 1:9.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,620
    Likes Received:
    3,592
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God chose to use the word ἀπαύγασμα, so I personally do not question its use. The issue is what the word meant to the audience.

    For example, is Christ really the χαρακτήρ (representation) of God or is He God?

    Misapplication has led to errors on both sides. But the context determines the interpretation.

    Christ's glory was not borrowed. It was His own. "reflection" does not mean (and should not be taken) as reflecting the Father's glory but having the glory of God.

    I agree that Scripture interprets Scripture.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How He is a representation makes all the difference. Moses was to Pharaoh, Exodus 7:1. The Son to all creation, John 1:3.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,620
    Likes Received:
    3,592
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that we have to go back to what it would have meant to the audience rather than what it means in our time. For our time Jesus calling Himself "Son of God" would not be a major statement. For the time Jesus made the statement it was a claim of equality with God.

    The context of John tells us, IMHO, that Christ is the representation of God, the reflection or radiance of God's glory, to proclaim that Jesus IS God. God's glory IS Jesus' glory.

    That's how I read it anyway.
     
  14. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus was/is always God, even if his disciples and all who saw Jesus did not see that glory. The Roman centurion proclaimed that fact. Perhaps the darkness of death was shattered by a brilliant light, and all the Roman centurion could do is shout out that Truth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Technically a refection is not a light source of the light reflected. The true light is the light source. John 1:9, Hebrews 1:3. [John 1:18, Genesis 12:7, Acts of the Apostles 7:2, ". . . The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, . . ."
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,620
    Likes Received:
    3,592
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree, it is not. Technically declaring oneself to be a son is not the same as claiming equality to the father.

    I agree with the doctrine that you hold. Jesus is the Light. The reason I do not mind words like "reflection" is that I believe it is necessary (regardless of the word used) to study Scripture and understand what is actually being communicated. Is Christ an exact "representation"? Yes. But not in the sense that He is a "copy" or less than the original. Is Christ a reflection of the glory of God? Yes. But not in the sense that that glory was not His own. (Some view "reflection" to be like a mirror reflecting light; others may consider that the son is a reflection of the father).

    It is important to consider Scripture as a whole and to understand that the way we would superficially take the translated words in English may not accurately convey what the biblical writers intended to convey (we see this often with John 3:16 and the word "so"). Study is important, and I believe you hit the meaning perfectly.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,094
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ephesians 5:8 "for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ..."

    Is this what Paul was teaching in Romans 8:30 where he referred to the fact that in some way we had been glorified?
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Translations that use reflrction in Hebrews 1:3, RSV, NRSV and NWT.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,094
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Over at Bible Hub, found three more (ISV, GWT and WNT). All presented the idea that the Son reflects God's glory. IMO, not how the verse should be translated. I think "radiates" best conveys the idea of "out of" "shining." Thus the source of the "out shining" is God the Son, rather than reflecting the glory of God the Father.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,233
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rather that God was His Father for which fellow Jews understoog Him to make Himself equal to God. John 5:18.
     
Loading...