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Hebrews 1:6

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Jan 8, 2005.

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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Hebrewes I.6 (KJV1611):

    And againe, when he bringeth in
    the first begotten into the world, hee
    saith, And let all the Angels of God
    worship him.

    Hebrews 1:6 (KJV1769 and KJV1873):

    And again, when he bringeth in
    the firstbegotten into the world, he
    saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Does anybody have the term "firstbegotten"
    in their English dictionary? :eek:

    This morning Google with the censor off
    shows 286,000 hits on "first begotten".
    This morning Google with the censor off
    shows 3400 hits on "firstbegotten".
    (856 hits on "firstbegotten" with the Google
    censor set on "medium".)
     
    #1 Ed Edwards, Jan 8, 2005
  2. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Brother Ed,

    I don't have time to look into it but if you'll take my word for it, it means 'firstborn'. It is not the same word as 'begotten' in verse 5, and the word 'begotten' in John 3:16 is a different word from either of those.

    The ESV and NASB both translate it 'firstborn' and when they agree they are usually right.
     
    #2 IveyLeaguer, Jan 8, 2005
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    YEs, i know the Greek is "protos" cause
    that is where i ran across the strange
    translation.

    Quoting myself from elsewhere:
    ----------------------------------------
    From the Strongest Strong's "protos" is translated:
    (translation, number of times in KJVx)

    first 86
    chief 10
    before 2
    former 2
    beginning 1
    best 1
    chiefest 1
    first begotten 1 (Revelation 1:5)
    firstbegotten 1 (Hebrews 1:6)

    (sorry, i just thought it strange that
    there are two English phrases "first begotten"
    and "firstbegotten" [​IMG] )
    ----------------------------------------

    Upon further study, it looks like
    "firstbegotten" is an ERROR in the KJV1769
    that wasn't in the KJV1611 :eek:
    That was the problem before the computer,
    when you corrected for one set
    of errors, another set of errors came in.

    (Not to be confused with other errors
    in the KJV1769 that are caused by earlier
    errors in the Greek source manuscriputs.)

    (Not to be confused by the error of most
    KJV1769 Bible makes of declining to use
    the KJV1611 Translator's translation notes.)
     
    #3 Ed Edwards, Jan 8, 2005
  4. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Ed,

    My KJV, and the Textus Receptus word is 'prōtotokos', not 'protos' - maybe that's where the confusion is.

    My Strong's says:

    πρωτοτόκος

    G4416 prōtotokos (pro-tot-ok'-os)

    From G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively): - firstbegotten (-born).

    Several other dictionaries say the same thing. The NASB is tweaked slightly from that, but still translates it 'firstborn'.

    Either way, 'first born' or 'firstbegotten', the idea is pretty clear, do you think?

    God Bless.
     
    #4 IveyLeaguer, Jan 8, 2005
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Maybe several of the AV translators had read Luther's Bible and occasionally used the German habit of putting several words together to make one big word, I.E. "leutnant(second lieutanant)is promoted to "oberleutnant"(first lieutenant) Thus, they have may have either coined "firstbegotten". I don't believe anyone should have any difficulty in knowing its definition.

    (A little aside...before we are too rough on the French...Our military ranks sergeant and lieutenant are FRENCH terms, sergeant coming from Middle French 'sergent', to serve, while lieutenant comes from current French, 'lieu', in place of, and 'tenant', to hold, & it literally means an official appointed to act in place of or in the name of a higher official. The French military IS good for something!)
     
    #5 robycop3, Jan 9, 2005
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