Featured heresy or opinion

OR, I am shocked. Is this the reason you think dispensationalism is heresy?

The "work" that Christ finished was the atonement. It is never to be repeated. It is done.

But it is false to claim that dispensationalism teaches that Christ's work isn't finished!!!

Where did you ever get such a false idea?

 

I agree! Some of the stuff these people spew out is worse than that I posted, if that is possible. One prominent name I missed is the Osteen boy with the basketball arena down in Texas; and it is full!

 

Amy.G.

I agree: Jesus Christ finished the work of atonement, He finished all the work that He came to do.

I don't believe that I have never said dispensationalism is heresy. I sat under a dispensational pastor for some 15 years and I sure did not consider him a heretic. An expository preacher, h was one of the best I have heard as long as he stayed away from "mysterium". He was not a seminary graduate, not even a college graduate. Came out of South Georgia and said "ort" every once in awhile.

I have said in the OP

Classic dispensationalism, as I show above and in further quotes in the OP, teaches that Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic Kingdom. He did not, therefore He could not say I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Dispensational doctrine indeed makes the Church for which Jesus Christ died, a parenthesis, an intercalation, an interruption in God’s program for Israel. I believe that teaching is heretical.

Now Amy.G, dispensationalism does not teach that all of the work of Jesus Christ is finished. That is the reason for the pre-trib rapture [getting the Church out of the way], the seven year tribulation, and the establishment of the Jewish millennium with the rebuilt temple and the offering of blood sacrifices.

 

It really is a pity that by your own admission you spent 15 years in a dispy church under a great preaching pastor and that in your mind makes you knowledgable on the subject which sadly is in-fact not the case.

 

What I said about the preacher is true. Unfortunately most Baptist preachers around here are dispensational and again unfortunately most can't preach!

So quit shuffling your feet and make your point.

 

All of the work that Jesus came to earth to do has been finished. I don't know of anyone who teaches differently. However, not all of God's work is done. Christ is still building His church, adding to it daily. There is a final judgment to take place. That is just 2 of the things that God has left to do. Human history is not over and God is still working.
Regarding your statement about the church being established "instead" of the Jews receiving the kingdom, that is just a gross misunderstanding of what I believe. The church has never been an afterthought of God. It was in His plan before the foundation of the earth. But Jesus plainly said that He came "for" His own (the Jews), but they received Him not. This was also God's plan as we read in Matt 13:14-15, which is a reference to Isaiah 6:9. God has blinded the Jews in order to bring in the Gentiles to build His church. But He has not forgotten them nor His promises to them and that is why when the "times of the Gentiles" is finished, God will turn again to the Jews and fulfill all the promises He made to them.

 

Hello Amyg,
Hebrew Israel gets absorbed into Christian Israel.

 

He is indeed!

I don't doubt that at all Amy.G. The doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church is not one that most dispensationalists of my acquaintance are aware of. Nevertheless I have shown that it is a bedrock doctrine of classic dispensational theologians.

I have noted on other threads that many dispensational leaders are moving away from this doctrine of the Church and the idea that God has two separate peoples. Called Progressive dispensationalism it is approaching the doctrine of Covenant Premillennialism, in my opinion a very healthy move!

Sadly classic dispensationalism rebuilds that wall between Jew and Gentile that Jesus Christ broke down through His own Blood.

 

Or, I hope I can explain my thoughts.

I like you believe there is only one people of God being elected presently. I understand by adding those last three word it might cause disagreement, however bear me out. Presently the people of God are; Gal.3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I believe the OT told us this and told us from whom of all the peoples of the earth these would be taken, even after he, God had scattered them among the Gentiles (nations). I believe the NT shows that God is doing exactly what he said he would do in the OT.

I believe the elect are elected for the purpose of God. This election is not about electing some for heaven and the others by default would be elected for hell.

It is about the kingdom of God. Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God , saying repent ye and believe the gospel. Man has to be re-born as something other than what the first man Adam was created. A living soul of corruptible flesh and blood to see, enter and or inherit this kingdom. That is possible because the one living God beget in a woman a man child, his son a living soul of corruptible flesh and blood, to die for the sin of the world. He knew from the foundation of the world that he was going to do this and made a provision through a promise that would apply to his son and that was the promise of the hope of eternal life. It is because of the death of the Son of God through faith (him giving his life through faith) he received the promised hope of eternal life by resurrection from the dead, by the Living Spirit God. The last Adam.

One will enter, inherit the kingdom of God at the appearing of Jesus by resurrection from the dead and or instant change from mortal, corruptible to immortal and incorruptible. The elect have been set apart by the gift of the Holy Spirit for that purpose.

After the establishing of the kingdom of God, God will deal with all of mankind who have not been called for the purpose above.

God can raise the dead and then deal with them just as he has dealt with those whom he has called.

What is the purpose of God establishing the kingdom of God upon the earth?

Now are the saved, the elect, saved because they believed or they had/have faith or is it because God calls them for his own purpose. As long as one believes he is saved because he has faith he will not believe that God though his Son Jesus is reconciling the world to himself from Satan.

God created the first man Adam so his Son could come like that Adam and defeat Satan through death and resurrection.
Satan's presence will not be here on the earth, (to deceive) when Jesus comes to sit on the throne of his glory.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. (Satan and death was already here when God arrived)

And the Spirit God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (God was the Light, Good) And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. (here upon the earth).

May or may not be off the OP. It isn't using a broad range of thought, and I mean broad.

 

How can a Dispy who holds to that church be in heresy, as he would still see jesus fulfilling his work of paying for the atonement of sins! That was the "it is accomplished!"

One could hold those holding to a Covenant "gospel of works" as being heresy also!

 

THe basis of the term "parenthesis" Church is: Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic Kingdom, could not because He was rejected by the Jews, and that He established the Church instead. Jesus Christ said in John 17:4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now if Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic Kingdom, as classic dispensationalism claims, and Jesus Christ finished the work He came to do then we would be living in a Messianic Kingdom; and we are not. The insistence on a "parenthesis" Church makes a liar out of Jesus Christ and I believe that specific doctrine it rises to the level of heresy. I am not arguing that the whole of classic dispensationalism is heretical; I do, however, believe their doctrine is seriously flawed.

I have said repeatedly that I believe a movement called "progressive dispensationalism" is moving away from the doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church. That is a welcome move!

Howeve,r there is a movement called hyper dispensationalism which talks about the "Gospel of Paul or the Gospel for the Gentiles" as contrasted to the "Gospel of Jesus Christ". I believe that group is clearly heretical. AresMan has remarked about these people and there are a couple on this Board, not posting now!

I haven't heard about a Covenant "gospel of works" but I do agree. Anything other than the Gospel of Grace, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is heretical

 

the Church was not given to the OT prophets by God, Mystery revealed to Paul in its totality...

the work that God sent jesus to do was to die and atone for sins as the lamb of God, NOT usher in the Messianic Age! that would wait until Hs Second Coming!

 

People like Ryrie, Walvoord, Chafer, Pentecost, all prominent dispensational theologians would disagree with you!

 

None of us are inspired Apostles, so maybe they saw that particular aspect wrongly?

 

So what was Jesus Christ talking about when He said: Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Then why do the dispensational theologians I mentioned teach otherwise.

 

Are they Classic or progressive Dispy teachers though?

 

I believe the 4 I referenced would be considered classic dispensationalists!

 

I grew up on my Scofield/Ryrie bibles, now hold to a more modified "progressive" view as espoused by say staff of DTS!

 

You didn't answer my question posed earlier: