Hip-Hop Prayer Book?

[tinytim]

OK, kiddies... let's not be disrespectful.
See what hip hop does to Baptists! lol

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Joseph, with all due respect, you are one to talk about being offensive.

You question his commitment to Christ...and then complain about your "feelings"?

People who live in glass homes...

Webdog,

First, there has never been much respect in the way you have addressed me so please, drop the pretense.

Second, if one is willing to overlook the teachings of Scripture to not offend their brother in Christ while justifying their own behavior, then yes, their commitment to God and his Word is lacking.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[JamieinNH]

so its a pamphlet or a booklet type thing. Thanks for answering my (and TinyTim's) question, Jamie.

Your welcome and yes.. It's a tool that the Trinity Episcopal Church of Morrisania in Bronx, NY created to help reach out to their community.

I am not sure if anyone has ever been in the Bronx, but it doesn't seem like the nicest of places. So in my opinion, in that sort of place, if they can use this tool to reach out and touch people, and get them into church, then I say it's a good tool.


Just because it doesn't FIT in OUR box, doesn't mean it's not worthy of use.



Jamie

 

[TaterTot]

I have to agree with Joseph here. Is it an evangelism tool or a worship aid?

 

[JamieinNH]

Jamie,

Thank you for this information. This certainly, for me, raises some good questions. For example, what is the purpose of worship? Is it to speak to mankind or to glorify God? What do you think?

Joseph Botwinick

I would think that it's meant to be a 1st step of getting people interested in God, and then God willing, they will take the next steps and become more Christian like and in due time, less sinful.


It's a tool to get people's interest just as we have tracts that do that, these people have this prayer book.

Spark the interest and see the Spirit grow.

I could be wrong.. I only offer my opinion. I haven't been to their church to see the results, and neither has anyone in this thread, so how can we stay it don't work if we haven't seen it ourselves?

Jamie

 

[JamieinNH]

I have to agree with Joseph here. Is it an evangelism tool or a worship aid?

I don't know. Based on the little on their website, I would think it's used as a tool. Until someone speaks with the Pastor, we would all only be guessing.

I do go to New York occasionally, the next time I will try to remember and see if I can meet with the Pastor there.

Jamie

 

[LeBuick]

It is also possible to be so arrogant and immature that you forget about not offending your brother in Christ while you justify it. You might want to consider being a bit more serious and reverent about your commitment to Christ, and consider the feelings of your fellow brother in Christ above your own as long as it doesn't conflict with Scripture. I find it offensive to be addressed as dude. Now, are you going to continue to arrogantly ridicule me, and disobey Scripture by fanning the flames of offense? Or will you refrain from such behavior out of love and respect for your Lord and his Word? I hope the latter will be true of you.

Joseph Botwinick

Now don't that beat all??? Me arrogant? Referring to you as dude makes me immature? If I felt you had cause to be offended I would apologize. Obviously I think you are being far to sensitive.

I have endured much insinuation and negitive attitude from you but I accepted it in the spirit of the board. Is that not love for my fellowman?

Lastly, you keep talking to me like i'm a child. I find your tone offensive. Now, are you going to continue this tone and disobey Scripture by fanning the flames of offense? Or will you refrain from such behavior out of love and respect for your Lord and his Word? I hope the latter will be true of you.

I'll pray for you my man...

 

[LeBuick]

Second, if one is willing to overlook the teachings of Scripture to not offend their brother in Christ while justifying their own behavior, then yes, their commitment to God and his Word is lacking.

Joseph Botwinick

And being wound so tight no one can kid with you?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

And being wound so tight no one can kid with you?

LeBuick,

It makes me sad to see you react to your brother in Christ in this manner. I will pray for God to soften your heart.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I don't know. Based on the little on their website, I would think it's used as a tool. Until someone speaks with the Pastor, we would all only be guessing.

I do go to New York occasionally, the next time I will try to remember and see if I can meet with the Pastor there.

Jamie

Didn't their website say it was a worship aid?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[webdog]

Webdog,

First, there has never been much respect in the way you have addressed me so please, drop the pretense.

Second, if one is willing to overlook the teachings of Scripture to not offend their brother in Christ while justifying their own behavior, then yes, their commitment to God and his Word is lacking.

Joseph Botwinick

Don't play the martyr.

If "overlooking the teachings of Scripture to not offend their brother in Christ while justifying their own behavior" means a commitment problem towards God, brother, you better start gettin' committed!

People who live in glass houses...

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally Posted by JamieinNH
I don't know. Based on the little on their website, I would think it's used as a tool. Until someone speaks with the Pastor, we would all only be guessing.

I do go to New York occasionally, the next time I will try to remember and see if I can meet with the Pastor there.

Jamie

Didn't their website say it was a worship aid?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[TheWinDork]

This message is a rebuke for The Win Dork:

But, what is even more important than that is the fact that your language, and the bitter way that you expressed youself is not honoring to God. It brings no honor to God to throw racial slurs and use language that you know is hateful. All it does is satisfy your sinful flesh.

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph,

You need to get your head out of the clouds my friend, (or whereever else you might keep it)

The term I used was a accurate term to describe a racial group. It was in no way intended to be taken as a racial slur. I am not a student of the politically correct, if you're a Negro, You're a Negro.. If you a caucasian, you're a caucasian, just that simple.

You might wanna get off thine high horse and study this term properly, before making wild eyed assumptions.

Thank You.

-WTD

 

[Brian30755]

I would think that it's meant to be a 1st step of getting people interested in God, and then God willing, they will take the next steps and become more Christian like and in due time, less sinful.


It's a tool to get people's interest just as we have tracts that do that, these people have this prayer book.

Spark the interest and see the Spirit grow.

I could be wrong.. I only offer my opinion. I haven't been to their church to see the results, and neither has anyone in this thread, so how can we stay it don't work if we haven't seen it ourselves?

Jamie

I still can't see hard-core inner city gang members (or anyone, for that matter) actually spending much time reading Hip Hop. But, like Jamie, I could be wrong. If it's working, God bless 'em.

 

[LeBuick]

I still can't see hard-core inner city gang members (or anyone, for that matter) actually spending much time reading Hip Hop. But, like Jamie, I could be wrong. If it's working, God bless 'em.

I don't either, but if you can give your believing youth something to associate them and their generation to the Church, it goes a long way. The prevailing thought from my young people, is GOD is the GOD of their parents that only reponds to old Church traditional worship. If that were so, we would still be meeting nightly in homes.

As for the gang members, I mostly get to speak to them after I do the funeral of one of their "homies" who happens to be a cousin or relation to a member of the Church. It's makes my stomach turn to see how many of these kids are content with knowing they won't live past 18, 21 if their lucky. I've cried many nights on my knees asking the LORD to help me understand how one can accept this reality. It's chilling when my answer is clarified by doing that childs funeral.

One of the toughest things I do in the ministry is to watch a beleiving parent bury their 15 year old child.

 

[JamieinNH]

Didn't their website say it was a worship aid?

Joseph Botwinick

No, I don't think it said worship aid. I think the phrase they mentioned it offered a means to worship that would draw in young.

Jamie

 

[TaterTot]

I still think its meant so that this church (and others) can be relevant to their audience. I am amazed to find that we have had this kind of hullabaloo over a pamphlet, lol. I was thinking all along it was a full paraphrase.

I believe in being relevant to society. Today we sat in a hospital waiting room with a young man (grandson of a church member) who is into the Gothic stuff. I watched how others looked at his manner of hair and dress, and I watched obvious little church ladies (surely you can spot em too) and others cast unapproving eyes toward him (and us), without any regard for where he has been in life and from where he has come. I was honored to sit and have a conversation with this young man as if he were human. He appreciated as well. He just as much as told us so.
I say all that to say that we never know the paths that others have trod. Maybe the Holy Spirit wants to use YOU as a tool to draw a person to Himself. May we all be willing.

 

[tinytim]

Very good post Tatertot.. If only Christians would quit being judgemental, then maybe we could get to the people Christ came to save.

This, I'm better than you..
My church is better than you...
My music is more holier than yours...
My Bible translation is better than yours...
etc.
Is disgusting... It is sending people to Hell.
And it is the same sin that Satan was guilty of... pride!

Oh, I'll probably get lambasted by KJVO, CCM hating, self righteous people posing as Christians that want to win souls. But instead of winning souls to the Lord, they want to win souls to their way of thinking.

We were all sinners saved by grace.
But for the grace of God go I.
I try to remember this...
And before anyone else says so.... yes I am a worm.. I am the lowest of the low..., and I think God for my salvation.

We need to get the word to the gangs, and if this does it, then praise God. If the Holy Spirit is using it, isn't it akin to Blasphemy to condemn it. Isn't it sorta blaspheming the Holy Ghost to say He cannot do something just because our small minds cannot comprehend what He is doing...

Some are on very fine lines here.

 

[TaterTot]

Tiny said: "...people posing as Christians"...

Tater says: I hear and see the word "posers" alot, and my kids at church told me that THAT is what it means. (not just about Christianity, though. Learnin' the lingo!

 

[tinytim]

Technically, I said, "people posing as Christians that want to win souls"
They may be Christians, but posers when it comes to winning souls..

It is funny, you should mention "posers", I included that phrase in my vocabulary over 2 years ago.. when i did a youth lesson on Christian posers.