Featured Holy Communion - Wine or Grape Juice?

There is no word in the Bible called "grape juice".

The word used is "beverage" and context determine if it is alcoholic or not.
The reason the Passover supper that we call "the Lord's Supper" is not wine (one of the many reasons) is that Passover is considered the first day of the feast of unleavened bread and no yeast of any kind was allowed -- not even yeast used in making wine.

"The role of yeast in winemaking is the most important element that distinguishes wine from grape juice. In the absence of oxygen, yeast converts the sugars of wine grapes into alcohol"

 

Well Bob Suppose you and I go have drink of grape juice.

Would you like fresh grape juice from these fresh grapes right here? Or would you like some this OLD grape juice I let sit outside for a week?


Things that only people who drink alcohol can understand:

Luke
39“And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, ‘The old is good enough.’”


Wine drinkers know the older the wine, the better. Are you going to convince me OLD GRAPE JUICE taste better then FRESH Grape juice?



John 2

10and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

This guy is COMPLAINING for using the GOOD STUFF last.

When you drink liquor or beer, you start with the GOOD STUFF FIRST , after your drunk your not gonna care what they put in it. you can have a drink with a cigarette sticking out of it and your not going to know the difference.....your drunk.

 

I am going with "Fresh".

Not how it works. Letting juice sit out for a week or two only gets you rotten juice. Wine on the other hand is science and art and requires a process and the use of yeast to make it something other than foul swill.

The leaven of wine yeast was not allowed on Passover because it is considered the first day of the feast of unleavened bread when no leaven of any kind was allowed to be present in the entire house -- much less the food and drink.

 

More than likely, myself, made such a statement, however, even if another, by the grace of God, I can answer your inquiry, only so long as it is a serious inquiry, wherein you actually desire to know the truth of the matter, and not merely hold to what you already believe, if the evidence is clear and compelling.

I have scriptural [KJB] and merely historical evidences.

Therefore, will you take my reply [ies] seriously? What I mean to ask is, will you change position and reform, repent if the Truth is clear from scripture [KJB], or will you hold to Romanism, even if it is to be found in contradiction to the evidence?

I have approximately 56 pages, Times New Roman font size 9 that addresses every single passage in scripture [KJB] on the subject. I have personally looked at these references, and the study is mine own, along with other references to other studies done long before me from varied persons.

I also have the Roman Catholic definitions of their own "wine" for their 'mass' [I used to be in the Roman position, having been Roman Catholic for 30 years]

If you are serious about Truth I will participate here, but if not, and only interested in tradition, I will continue my time elsewhere. My conversation will only be with you.

 

Wow did you just mentally delete what I wrote on the post? I can tell when you are on the ropes.


ARE You sure you want the fresh Juice?

Luke 5

39And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.’ ”

Because Jesus Christ says OLD GRAPE JUICE is better then FRESH GRAPE JUICE.

Are you sure you don't want some of this better OLD GRAPE JUICE then FRESHLY SQUEEZED JUICE?

 

IF the "old wine" is properly fermented with yeast - going through the art-and-science to take the "fine wine" path rather than the "rotten juice" path then the alcoholic prefers it ..

But the subject is the Passover meal of Christ - and for Passover you are at the first day of the "feast of unleavened bread" - where yeast is not only not allowed in food... it is not allowed "in the house". Did you just mentally delete the entire topic and context??

BTW

Hence the dislike of the very taste of it - that I experience and that most people I know regard it - or will say that they initially found the taste to be bad until they drank so much and so often that they "got used to it"

 

Fruit juice need not have yeast added to it in order to get wine or vinegar.

Yeast molecules are both in the air and in the fruit skin itself.
So of course are bacteria.

One need not add yeast to fruit juice (e.g. cider) to start fermentation.

 

Indeed the rotting affect will always occur - the question is the art-and-science of a controlled process to make it tasty or the uncontrolled natural decay process that makes it simply putrid.

""The role of yeast in winemaking is the most important element that distinguishes wine from grape juice. In the absence of oxygen, yeast converts the sugars of wine grapes into alcohol""

=================================

Fermentation Management Practices
Introduction

The goal of fermentation management is to develop a robust population of microorganisms that will complete the fermentation and resist any biotic or abiotic stress that may occur along the way in addition to the production of positive aromatic characters contributing to complexity. Grape juice is rich in nutrients, particularly in sugars from which energy will be derived. The end products of sugar catabolism, aldehydes and alcohols, are inhibitory to growth so the cell must be able to successfully adapt both growth and continued metabolism to the presence of these biological stressors. Sufficient macronutrients (N, S, P) and micronutrients (vitamins, minerals and growth factors) must be present to support cell growth and proliferation. Nutrient supplementation can be used to augment the grape content. Excessive use of nutrients may detract from wine quality by preventing the natural competition that keeps certain populations in check and may block production of desired aroma compounds derived from catabolism of less preferred nutritional sources. Fermentation management must also consider establishing conditions that will allow completion of the fermentation, conversion of all available sugar to either biomass, ethanol or carbon dioxide. Specific nutrients and growth conditions are needed for optimal ethanol and aldehyde tolerance and these condition should be established during fermentation to prevent fermentation arrest.

Successful fermentation management strategies also consider the impacts of temperature, oxygen, pH and mixing on microbial growth and metabolism. If bioloads of non-Saccharomyces organisms are high, then the use of antimicrobial agents to assure rapid domination of the fermentation may be optimal. Inoculation with specific cultures can be used to assure metabolically hearty strains are present.

Inoculation Practices

 

Why does Jesus say OLD wine is better?

Man if Jesus knows how to roll a joint there is a good chance he smokes weed.

=============

Why is it permitted to drink wine on Passover when it is fermented with yeast? Isn't yeast forbidden on Passover?

Answer:

Of the hundreds of species of yeast, the Passover prohibition only applies to yeast which is a product of one of the following five grains: wheat, barley, oat, spelt, or rye. Yeast which is the product of grapes, or its sugars, is not considered chametz (leavened food).

Why is it permitted to drink wine on Passover when it is fermented with yeast?




Try a kosher Jewish wine find out how it tastes.

 

Hint - Jesus did not say "old wine is better for passover" nor did He say "no yeast except for wine on Passover"


Why is it permitted to drink wine on Passover when it is fermented with yeast? Isn't yeast forbidden on Passover?

Answer:

It is not permitted -- see the Bible

 

Most wines advertised, labeled, and sold as "Kosher for Passover" are not nonalcoholic.

 

Not all you just can't use wheat, barley, oat, spelt, or rye.

 

I believe passover wines are labeled seder.

 

no leaven "in the house" (how many ways to say that)

Ex 12:15
15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses;

 

There are yeast cells in the skin of the grapes it's unavoidable.

There are yeast molecules in the air as well.

 

Well - molecules in the air or not - the deliberate intent to insert wine yeast and to artfully create a yeast based beverage was not consistent with searching the entire house for leaven and making sure you had none in the entire house prior to the feast of unleavened bread.