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How a church can go from "praise and worship" to true preaching of God's Word!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Spoudazo, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. David Ekstrom

    David Ekstrom New Member

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    Here's another shallow Praise and Worship song:

    We believe in God the Father,
    We believe in Christ the Son,
    We believe in the Holy Spirit,
    We are the church and we stand as one.

    We believe in the Holy Bible,
    We believe in the virgin birth,
    We believe in the resurrection,
    That Christ one day will return to earth.

    Holy, Holy,
    Holy is Our God;
    Worthy, worthy,
    Worthy is Our King.
    All glory and honor are His to receive.
    To Jesus we sing
    Because we believe.

    We believe in the blood of Jesus;
    We believe in eternal life;
    We believe in His love that frees us
    To become the Bride of Christ.

    At any rate, I could give example after example. I love the old hymns, too, if they're done right. But it simply is not true to say that praise and worship music is all shallow. Some of it is, just like some of the old hymns are. You have to realize that the old hymns are the best of the best. The shallow ones have been forgotten. So it will be with praise and worship music.
     
  2. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo New Member

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    "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you." (John 16:13-14)

    The Holy Spirit enables us to worship the Son, thereby bringing glory to the Father. It's how God set it in order so that's the order which I follow [​IMG]

    And thanks for the encouraging words bapmom
    [​IMG]

    BTW, the change in music style did not happen from some "rule," as my pastor has never denounced praise and worship, it was just a natural by-product of the revival that God sent [​IMG]
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    David...I'm a bit traditional and old fashioned but I will say that the lyrics you quoted above sure seem good.Or to coin the phrase...."that'll PREACH.I still prefer the old hymns as long as they are done right.Some of my favorites are "Great Is Thy Faithfulness","Marvelous Grace","Amazing Grace"...and many others.One of my true favorites is a song that used to be Bro.Lester Roloff's "theme" song.An old hymn called "Living By Faith".God Bless You.

    Greg Sr.
     
  4. David J

    David J New Member

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    (sarcasm on)Ok here is another example of weak modern music:

    He Is by Aaron Jeoffrey

    In Genesis, He's the breath of life
    In Exodus, the Passover Lamb
    In Leviticus, He's our High Priest
    Numbers, The fire by night
    Deuteronomy, He's Moses' voice
    In Joshua, He is salvation's choice

    Judges, law giver
    In Ruth, the kinsmen-redeemer
    First and second Samuel, our trusted prophet
    In Kings and Chronicles, He's sovereign
    Ezra, true and faithful scribe
    Nehemiah, He's the rebuilder of broken walls and lives

    In Esther, He's Mordecai's courage
    In Job, the timeless redeemer
    In Psalms, He is our morning song
    In Proverbs, wisdom's cry
    Ecclesiastes, the time and season
    In the Song of Solomon, He is the lover's dream

    He is, He is, He is

    In Isaiah, He's the Prince of Peace
    Jeremiah, the weeping prophet
    In Lamentations, the cry for Israel
    Ezekiel, He's the call from sin
    In Daniel, the stranger in the fire
    In Hosea, He is forever faithful

    In Joel, He's the spirit's power
    In Amos, the arms that carry us
    In Obadiah, He's the Lord our Savior
    In Jonah, He's the great missionary
    In Micah, the promise of peace
    In Nahum, He is our strength and our shield

    In Habakkuk and Zephaniah, He's pleading for revival
    In Haggai, He restores a lost heritage
    In Zachariah, our fountain
    In Malachi, He is the sun of righteousness rising with healing in His wings

    He is, He is, He is

    In Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, He is God, man, Messiah
    In the Book of Acts, He is fire from heaven
    In Romans, He's the grace of God
    In Corinthians, the power of love
    In Galatians, He is freedom from the curse of sin

    Ephesians, our glorious treasure
    Philippians, the servant's heart
    In Colossians, He's the Godhead Trinity
    Thessalonians, our coming King
    In Timothy, Titus, Philemon, He's our mediator and our faithful pastor

    In Hebrews, the everlasting covenant
    In James, the one who heals the sick
    In First and Second Peter, He is our shepherd
    In John and in Jude, He's the lover coming for His bride
    In the Revelation, He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords

    He is, He is, He is

    The Prince of Peace
    The Son of Man
    The Lamb of God
    The Great I Am
    He's the Alpha and Omega
    Our God and our Savior
    He is Jesus Christ the Lord
    And when time is no more
    He is
    He is

    Yeah no teaching in this song!

    There is nothing wrong with praise and worship. It's better to praise and worship vs. being dead in the water.
     
  5. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit New Member

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    Sometimes the simplest words of praise are the best. Can you honestly look at the Psalms and say that they are not written as simple praises unto the Lord?

    The Lord is my shepherd - I shall not want...

    How simple is that? Yet those sincere and genuine words are a powerful testimony of the psalmist's relationship with the Lord.
     
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    You would think they would get bored just saying the same 16 words over and over and over and over and over, day and night, never ceasing.

    Then again, maybe repetition of simple lyrics is not the real problem. Maybe our hearts are just too small.
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I feel revival comin' on Brothers!!!!!!!!
    Just back up and read all the praise to God.
     
  8. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit New Member

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    well done, tinytime...that's what I'm talkin' about!
     
  9. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Do you think that maybe the problem comes in when one or the other is neglected?

    Don't we need both simple praise choruses AS WELL AS the old, timely hymns sung with gusto and real thought?
     
  10. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Worship is not just songs being sung. Worship is not just preaching (though in the church this is the centerpice of worship). Worship is my complete satisfaction in God in all things.

    As John Piper has so eloquently said: "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him."

    When this happens worship will be a way of life, not just a singing of songs on Sunday.
     
  11. David Ekstrom

    David Ekstrom New Member

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    I do thank God for the revival that our brother reported. And I'm not anti-tradional music. If you knew me, you'd know I love the classic hymns and I use them.

    My problem is the claim implied that you either have true preaching of the word or you have praise and worship. The OP said "How to go FROM ____ TO ________." What else is that supposed to mean except that we should try to leave "praise and worship" and move on up to "true preaching of the word of God?" This is a false dichotomy. It turns the worship service into a one-man show.

    In the IFB circles I used to travel, preaching degenerated into "pulpiteering," where style is more important than substance. That ridiculous silohette of Billy Sunday striking an exaggerated pose was supposed to be the epitome of preaching.

    How about we get back to biblical exposition and heart-felt worship in our churches?

    [ September 06, 2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: David Ekstrom ]
     
  12. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    David,

    may I say, perhaps it is a difference in our viewpoint of what church is. To us, and Im an IFB, the church service is a preaching service. Praise and worship are incorporated within it, of course, they are not excluded. But to us, as I understand it, praise and worship are things which are supposed to be done by each individual each day in his daily walk with God. Thus the main purpose of our service is not to have a worship service, but rather to have a preaching service.
    It is a time for the preacher to reprove, rebuke, exhort to all good works, a time to open the Scriptures and explain and illustrate so that all can understand, and a time to preach the gospel to any visitors who might be there.
    I understand your viewpoint because it is how I was raised, my parents still are of your mindset. Im not condemning you of course, just saying that perhaps much of what you saw as a degeneration might just have been because you came with a different mindset than what those churches had.
    Does this make sense?
    Please don't think that Im saying worship should be left out! No, not at all....like I said, it is a part.
     
  13. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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    We were members of a church where a new pastor decided to have 2 services on Sun. morning, one traditional and the other contemporary. I was against the contemporary because I believed that it was not honoring God. My wife and our two sons went to the contemporary, I went to the traditional. After some time they convinced me to try the contemporary. The first 2 times I just sat
    there, the third time I was involved and have liked contemporary since then.
    We didn't find a blended service until we moved to where we are now. Our church dosen't have enough members to have 2 services. So the blended service works very well.
     
  14. jw

    jw New Member

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    Rev 2:2-4 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast praise and worship music..

    Yep, that's what the Bible says... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Because personal holiness and salvation is all about the music program. That's why Paul wrote so many letters about the importance of a good usic program in churches.
     
  15. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo New Member

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    It's amazing how many people will defend something because it feels good, and yet, where's the fruit?
     
  16. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit New Member

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    Funny...that's the same thing they said when Fanny J. Crosby was writing all of those songs in her day. Folks would be suprised to know what was said about those songs when they were first written.

    Does a song have to be at least 100 years old to be godly? (If so, "He Touched Me" is out!) Are we not to accept a song until the author is dead?

    Spoudazo has asked an important question, but if it is answered, will you ignore the response? In truth, the same question can be asked - where's the fruit (whatever that means) - about the old traditionals.

    And by the way, is it wrong to "feel good" about the songs you're singing in church? I have a feeling in many cases the clamour over music style has much more to do with self (what I want) than anything else. (On both sides of the issue)
     
  17. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    USN2,

    where do you get the impression that people here are against "feeling" in their singing? Throughout this thread Ive seen people writing things like "heartfelt praise" being a great thing, and we should sing with real feeling and glorifying God in the words and music.

    I don't believe that this is about "old" versus "new" songs, but rather whether the songs that ARE being sung are more shallow now than they used to be. Alot of times they are. But not always.

    I love Frank Hamilton's songs. He writes good lyrics, with alot of meaning and teaching and real experience, and his songs are beautiful. Im sure there are many others. But I don't remember anyone saying that an author has to be dead before we like their songs.
     
  18. Dina

    Dina New Member

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    I do not for one second believe that the majority of that church was unsaved because of the music that was sung or not sung.

    Lord Reign In Me
    Over all the earth
    You reign on high
    Every mountain stream every sunset sky
    But my one request Lord my only aim
    Is that You'd reign in me again

    Lord reign in me
    Reign in Your power
    Over all my dreams
    In my darkest hour
    You are the Lord of all I am
    So won't You reign in me again

    Over every thought
    Over every word
    May my life reflect the beauty of my Lord
    'Cause You mean more to me than any earthly thing
    So won't You reign in me again

    The Heart of Worship
    When the music fades
    And all is stripped away
    And I simply come
    A Longing just to bring
    Something that's of worth
    That will bless Your heart
    I'll bring you more than a song For a song in itself
    Is not what you have required
    You search much deeper within
    Through the ways things appear
    You're looking into my heart

    CHORUS:
    I'm coming back to the heart of worship
    And its all about You
    All about You, Jesus
    I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it
    When its all about You
    It's all about You

    King of endless worth
    No one could express how much You deserve
    Though I'm weak and poor
    All I have is Yours
    Every single breath
    I'll bring you more than a song
    For a song in itself
    Is not what you have required
    You search much deeper within
    Through the ways things appear
    You're looking into my heart
     
  19. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Dina,

    no one said they were!

    I really think people need to just get over his wording of the OP! He MEANT, I believe, that people were only interested in what they were calling a "praise and worship" service INSTEAD OF preaching the gospel.

    Haven't you ever been to a church service where all they did was sing shallow, repetitious choruses and smile at each other?

    Fine, maybe you haven't, but apparently that was what HIS church was experiencing.

    At HIS church that meant something to him that frankly none of us here really understand because we weren't IN his church then.

    Just praise God that they got saved! And now they CAN praise and worship in the REAL sense, by BEING SAVED and singing praises to God!

    Amen! Hallelujah!
     
  20. Dina

    Dina New Member

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    Perhaps, not in the OP, but it was made clear in the next post.
     
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