1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured How are believers "Drawn" to Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 27, 2023.

  1. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope. τασσω is passive so it cannot be what you want it to be. Grammar matters.

    The Archangel
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This issue with the Matthew 28:16 passage is this: In Matthew 28:16, τασσω is a verb and it is in the "middle" voice. In the middle voice, τασσω is actually "active." "Jesus" is the subject of the verb. Jesus does not direct the apostles by mutual consent.

    In Acts, τασσω is not a verb; it is a participle, and it is passive. So... the people appointed were not appointing themselves.

    The Archangel
     
    #82 The Archangel, Jul 10, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2023
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,845
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for explaining the rules for Biblical Greek on these passages. It is appreciated.

    it’s been a while since I have seen you post. Good to see you again.

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,093
    Likes Received:
    300
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But some people are self-appointed.... oh never mind. :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  5. Piper

    Piper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Obfuscation!!!! LOL
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL, what nonsense. They received the direction from Paul, thus the word is passive. Your objection is obfuscation.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you change appoint to appointed, you can say they are different words, but you are making a distinction without a difference.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If a person is predisposed to reject the gospel because it differs from prior beliefs, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individuals in the past? Yes, of course. OTOH, if a person is open to God's established directions to eternal life, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individual? Yes, of course.

    Thus as many as were disposed or open to the established directions to eternal life, believed.

    This view actually reflects the context and grammar of Acts 13:48.
     
  9. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ummm... that's not what passive means... Passive means the subject is not doing the action, but is acted upon.

    Secondarily, Acts 13:48 is not a speech of Paul, nor is it a quote of Paul. It is Luke's narration of the events.

    So, you are incorrect on two counts.

    The Archangel
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, not at all.

    No, not at all.

    In no way that that view actually match the tone, timbre, or grammar of the passage.

    The passage is: ἀκούοντα δὲ τὰ ἔθνη ἔχαιρον καὶ ἐδόξαζον τὸν λόγον τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον This bold section is the clause in question.

    The wooden translation is: Hearing this, the Gentiles were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord and believed. Then, he answers an implied question by clarifying who is was who believed: As many as had been appointed to eternal life.

    So, Luke goes the extra mile here to explain who it was who believed (as many as were appointed) and why they believed (they were appointed). That the clause in question "As many as had been appointed to eternal life" is saved for the end of the sentence in order to give emphasis (that's how Greek works).

    You are simply not correct.

    The Archangel
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Piper

    Piper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Archangel, you are saying all the right things. I'm sure this forum is low on your totem pole of priorities, seeing your grasp of Greek. Thanks for your input, brother.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,845
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So folks, let’s review..

    1. When someone who actually knows and understands Biblical Greek gives an in-depth explanation why the OP is wrong concerning Biblical Greek… it is still characterized as “nonsense” and “obfuscation”.

    2. The OP clearly does not understand Biblical Greek, but is so focused on disproving “Calvinism” intellectual integrity is sacrificed to cling to misguided interpretations.

    There is no way to discuss these issues with folks like that. No amount of biblical truth will sway them. No amount of expert analysis will convince them.

    The OP has been Biblically and thoroughly corrected.

    The only response will be “taint so”.

    Peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They were acted upon, as Paul direction to eternal life had been established by God. Duh
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL, yet another taint so post. If anyone thinks the mutual consent meaning cannot be conveyed using the passive form of the verb, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) Do you not know many scholars with doctorates, advocate the mutual consent view?

    2) You like to claim others lack expertise, rather than address the topic.
    " In addition not a single usage of tasso in Acts identifies God as being the agent performing the action. In fact of all the instances where tasso is seen throughout the entire N.T. only one explicitly identifies God as being the actor of tasso (e.g. Rom. 13:1), and even in that case the verse is completely unrelated to salvation and simply deals with God setting or establishing authorities in place."​
     
    #95 Van, Jul 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,845
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL This is what I posted:
    The OP posted:
    You do not need to be a prophet nor the son of a prophet to predict how the OP will respond. DUH!! LOL

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Piper

    Piper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Canadyjd, you are obviously a t'aint-soer. Nothing will convince you that his views are right, not even twisting someone's own words to misrepresent what they said. Fyi, I am almost about to give up on him.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  18. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My response wasn't one of your so-called "taint so" posts. I gave this explanation.... to which you said "taint so..."

    In no way did you interact with what I wrote, other than to say "no." You gave no reason or cause that I might be incorrect, other than to suggest that your opinion about a particular word or passage trumps all scholarship to the contrary. So, not only are you being hypocritical in this, you are also demonstrating elements of narcissism.

    The Archangel
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What does that even mean????

    The Archangel
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another post addressing the poster and running from the topic. DUH
     
Loading...