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How Could Food and Drink Apparently Be *Inescapably* Defiling?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Apr 16, 2024.

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  1. It had been offered to an idol

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Some unknown other reason

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 1:8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

    Daniel and his three friends apparently were the only ones in the entire household of the king who were not defiled daily through what they ate and drank. As this text and the rest of the chapter reads, there was no way or setting in which Daniel and his friends could eat that food or drink that wine and not defile themselves--they had to eat and drink other things in order to not be defiled.

    How should we rightly understand the *inescapably* defiling nature of any eating of that food and drinking of that drink?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What verse says the King's food and drink were "inescapably defiling?"

    The verse quoted (Daniel 1:8) says Daniel chose not to defile himself with a portion of the king's food and drink.
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The reason the food was defiling is not addressed in the passage.
    We can presume it was in some way connected to the worship of foreign gods.

    Rob
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Daniel 1:2–5 The Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the vessels of the house of God; and he brought them to the land of Shinar, to the house of his god, and he brought the vessels into the treasury of his god.
    3 Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, the chief of his officials, to bring in some of the sons of Israel, including some of the royal family and of the nobles,
    4 youths in whom was no defect, who were good-looking, showing intelligence in every branch of wisdom, endowed with understanding and discerning knowledge, and who had ability for serving in the king’s court; and he ordered him to teach them the literature and language of the Chaldeans.
    5 The king appointed for them a daily ration from the king’s choice food and from the wine which he drank, and appointed that they should be educated three years, at the end of which they were to enter the king’s personal service.


    I think it reasonable that the food and drink could have been offered to idols.

    It could also be that the food and drink were prepared improperly for Jewish consumption....or the food was not what was permitted to eat.


    If I were king, I'd have shrimp, lobster and oysters on the half shell at least once a day.
     
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  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they used vessels dedicated to temple worship in the preparation or serving?

    peace to you
     
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  6. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    What I mean by "inescapably" defiling is that there were apparently no alternate ways, locations, etc. by which that food and drink could be consumed by Daniel and his friends so that it would not defile them by their eating and drinking it.
     
  7. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting alternative possibility to consider.
     
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  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    The scripture doesn't explicitly say, but I strongly suspect that Daniel and his friends, considered the food -- prepared and served in a pagan way (possibly derived from sacrifices to false gods) -- defiling since it would be considered assimilation with the Babylonians and a rejection of the Law of Moses. Remember, much of the point of the Babylonian captivity was to take the elites of the Hebrews and essentially make them Babylonians. That's also why they were given Babylonian names. They couldn't control how people addressed them, but they could control what they would eat.

    So I think they were of the conviction that God was still with them and they were not going to abandon His Law, even if the circumstances were bleak. And we see that God honored their faithfulness.

    And since we are Christians, it would be remiss of me not to mention (for those who are not already aware), that Jesus declared all foods clean -- food and drink does not defile a person:

    Mark 7:14-23

    After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside the person which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which come out of the person are what defile the person.”

    And when He later entered a house, away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding as well? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the person from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and goes out into the latrine?” (Thereby He declared all foods clean.) And He was saying, “That which comes out of the person, that is what defiles the person. For from within, out of the hearts of people, come the evil thoughts, acts of sexual immorality, thefts, murders, acts of adultery, deeds of greed, wickedness, deceit, indecent behavior, evil eye (envy), slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile the person.”
     
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  9. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Many years later, the glorified Jesus excoriated people in two churches for having wicked teachers in their midst who were teaching and seducing God's servants to eat things offered to idols:

    Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.​

    Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.​

    Eating things offered to idols was and is still prohibited for God's people.
     
  10. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    How would Christians today encounter this prohibition?

    Rob
     
  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    In many major metropolitan areas even in the US, there are now temples where gods are worshiped, including offering certain foodstuffs to them. Some of that consecrated foodstuff is then offered freely to those who visit the temples and attend various functions at the temples.

    As a first-generation believer from a 3rd-world country, I have close relatives here in the US who sometimes in the past have gone to some such functions. Some of them are believers--when they have done so, they have violated what Scripture teaches.
     
    #11 Scripture More Accurately, Apr 19, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
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