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How Did the Fall of Adam Affect the Lord Jesus?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Feb 17, 2018.

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  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I'm not going to get involved in a long discussion where you seek to justify the errors of "Spirit Christology," or simple errors like making Christ assume the role of Satan.

    You need to recognize that you are going to an extreme in regards to Christ's humanity, and that is the result of your fascination with Spirit Christology.

    If you want to create false arguments and then address them, great, but start a thread. If you address my posts please address what I have said, not what you want to think I believe.

    The bottom line is that Christ was God manifest in the flesh, fully God, fully human, and that He was sinless is just a fact known to God before the world was formed. The Redemptive Plan demanded a sinless man, and the only way that could take place was for God to assume humanity and to die in the stead of the sinner.

    Please consider some of the points raised in the previous posts. And don't get upset with me, I'm just trying to help you, it isn't a witch hunt.


    God bless.
     
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    O.K. Darrell:
    Here's the deal, we are obviously talking quite passed one another.

    You seem to have it in your head that I am WAY WAY off the track of Orthodoxy, and don't know the difference between the Son of God and Satan..... and it is up to you to defend the absolute basic essentials of the Faith.

    Perhaps it's because I have not expressed myself well, and that's quite possibly my fault.
    But we are not even able to have a reasonable discussion.
    You have your Theological dander up and see only egregious forms of heresy which must be addressed.

    I affirm the same fundamental confessional Chalcedonian Christology that any Christian does which affirms that Christ was Truly God and Truly man.

    It's clear from some of your responses to my statements that I am being misunderstood.
    I am thankful for your desire to defend Orthodox Christology and the true Divinity of Christ...............
    As I do, and always have:

    But, we are not communicating here, and I don't think we'll be able to even if we try.
    God bless you and have a great day :)
     
  3. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    I explained that was a miss-type and I'm aware that the "strong-man" is Satan....I'd been up for 24 hours...I have now explained this twice. Please accept my wish to not be falsely accused by you any more.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Absolutely. It is a thinly veiled Docetism. I can't believe that so few seem to find it objectionable that some pretend to affirm Scripture by saying Jesus was 100% man and 100% God, shared in our nature, the Word made flesh, etc.....and then turn around and add "but his humanness was different from our humanness". It's heresy thinly disguised within a veil of orthodoxy.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is no need for that distinction, as reformed hteology in this area is of the scriptures themselves!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You deny that Adam spiritual died when he fell though, correct?
    And so you would not see the sin nature as being passed unto us after the Fall, correct?
    We are all born into sin, so if Jesus was the same nature as all of us, was he a sinner?
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    :Laugh:Laugh:Laugh we tried that already....don't you remember all of those requests for Scripture? You had none.
    What verse says that Adam "spiritually died"?

    For that matter, what verse says that Adam was "spiritually alive" to begin with?

    What verse says a "sin nature" that was different from Adams human nature when he decided to sin was passed on to us?

    What verse says it is our nature itself that constitutes sin?
     
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He is more that the heir of God, for he is God!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We were all dead in our sin and transgressions, all of us apart and enemies of God, correct?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam was created in a state of innocence, and fully obeyed the Lord, bent towards God, when he sinned, His natural bent moved off God and now upon Himself! That is the ultimate sin nature...
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus could and did die in His physical body!
     
  12. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    It is...
    I think there's a Psychology to it as well.
    Subconsciously, many are petrified of erring on the side of minimizing Christ's Divinity, and rightly so.
    Many are probably subconsciously willing to purchase Christ's Divinity at the expense of his humanity because they don't particularly fear erring on that level. It is thought of like scales in a laboratory...
    The more human he is, the less Divine
    The more Divine he is, the less he can truly be human.
    Thus, most default to denying humanity.......
    I mean that's not REALLY, REALLY a heresy right?? It feels, safer somehow.

    Many gloss over John's severe warning, which is clearly a warning against the growing influence of Gnosticism:
    1Jo 4:1
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    1Jo 4:2
    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    1Jo 4:3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    Denying Christ's real humanity makes his sacrificial death of no account:
    God didn't pay the price for man's sin.
    Man must pay the price for man's sin.
    Adam owes the debt, man does, not God.
    Hence the God-man.

    Whatever our view, the Scriptures insist we do not purchase either one at the expense of the other.
    Which is why I don't particularly care for thinking in terms of "natures" one Divine, one human, all subsisting in one being. While not itself heretical, it's just unnecessary and confusing.
    It is a uniquely Westernized set of categories that aren't really assumed in Scripture.
    We've over-thought the issue.
    We don't have to think in terms of these two distinct and contradictory "natures" in perpetual competition struggling at any given moment for dominance:

    What happens is, whenever Christ is tired, hungry, chilled, hot, bored or sick......(or praying that the cup would pass from him because he doesn't want to be tortured to death) it's his "human nature" in play...

    But, whenever it comes to anything of moral significance, (like actually being obedient unto death in accordance with the Father's will) his Divine Side steps in and takes control pushing his humanity aside. I don't buy it.
     
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  13. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    You misunderstood. I was asking you to defend your ideas through Scripture, not repetition.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I think you missed his point....like....really bad missed his point.
     
  15. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    What does that have to do with this discussion? Nothing
     
  16. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Dead in our sin and transgression? Yes

    Dead in Adams sin and transgression? No
     
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  17. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    A nature is not a bent or disposition.

    Is Jesus's divine nature simply a bent or disposition toward Divine things? Or is his divine nature the essence of his being?
     
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  18. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I like this post.
    I've said before that scripture tells us plainly that in the incarnation - everything that God is, clothed Himself in everything that we are. Without static. A true hypostasis
     
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  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Were you made a miracle worker? Could a woman be healed by touching the hem of your garment? Do the winds and waves obey you? Can you raise the dead?

    He most certainly was born something you are not. (And am I glad. We would certainly be dying in our sins.)

    His body was made for Him for the suffering of death, (though death could not hold him and was raised by the power of an endless life) and to be touched with the feeling of our physical weaknesses, not our moral weaknesses.

    Jesus is incorruptible. He could not, cannot and can never sin.
     
    #79 Aaron, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Like it or not, He was not corruptible, and was without sin. So, it wasn't EVERYTHING you are as you think of it.
     
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