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How different are Versions?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004.

?

How different is the KJV1769 from the KJV1611?

  1. unable to tell or don't want to tell

    12 vote(s)
    48.0%

  2. under 1%

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%

  3. 2%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  4. 4%

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%

  5. 8%

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%

  6. 16%

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%

  7. 33%

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%

  8. 66%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  9. 100%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  10. 200%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    How different is the KJV1769 from the KJV1611?

    KJV1769 = the King James Version finalized
    in 1769, the 1762 edition, the 1769 edition,
    and American unauthorized rip-offs fo the
    1762 edition and the 1769 edition.
    KJV1611 = the Authorized Version as printed
    in 1611

    How different is the KJV1769 from the nKJV?

    KJV1769 is as above (it is the unually unmarked
    KJV that sells most in the USAofA)
    nKJV = New King James Version of 1985.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    How do you count changes?
    If two words in one are said by three different
    words in the other - how many changes?

    1 - one change, a source language word
    was translated as two English words in one
    Bible and three English words in the other

    5 - five changes, two words were dropped
    and three were added.
    2+3=5 God said it, i believe it, and &lt;snipped&gt;

    2 - two changes, two words were dropped

    3 - three chages, three words were added

    [​IMG]
     
    #2 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I get more votes on top [​IMG]
     
    #3 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I marked "can't tell" for question 1 as I really have little idea how the 1611 and 1768 KJV are different. I know there are differences but not how much. Will you be giving us the answer eventually? I'd like to know.

    I guessed 8% on question #2. That was just a guess.

    Are you giving us the answer to that as well later on? [​IMG]
     
    #4 Marcia, Aug 27, 2004
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    No. It is
    a matter of opinion, there is no "right"
    answer. If someone makes a study of how
    different two things are, they need to
    establish before the study what the criteria
    will be for the difference.

    My personal opinion is that there is
    just under 2% difference between the KJV1769
    and the earlier "as translated" edtion:
    the KJV1611. But that isn't an opinion
    shared by others, obviously (see the poll) [​IMG]

    My personal opinion is that there is
    just a tad over 4% difference between the
    KJV1769 and the a so called "Modern Version"
    made from the Alexandrian texts.
    Not everyone will get the same mileage.

    Strangely, two malcontents have already
    voted "200%" :( These are the people we
    are trying to reach with the truth:
    what definition of "change" would allow
    for double everything changed?

    Did you 200%ers realise that the original
    Greek in the New Testament has NO punctuation?
    All the punctuation has been added by the
    translators (in the KJV1769 also known
    as "respellers").

    Did youy 200%ers realise that the original
    Greek sources of the New Testament have
    no VERSE NUMBERS?
    All the verse numbers were added (most in
    the 1300s, i think i recall) -- very few
    differences here, the next groups of
    translators put in the same numbers (usually)
    as earlier non-Greek "sources".

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  6. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    Ed, since you mentioned chapter and verse, when I was a KJVO some Onlyist teachers taught even these were inspired!
    I'm going back to my pea brain and it seems to tell me that a Cardinal Hugo divided the Bible into chapters and verses around the 10th Century...anyhow, I can't verify it at this time.
     
    #6 Pastor KevinR, Aug 27, 2004
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    5000 major spelling changes from 1611 to the 1769 revision I have, and that does not include the u/v, s/f or extra e changes that came with the evolution of the language in 150 years.

    Then major changes or words and phrases that actually change the meaning of the passage - list of more than 100!

    http://members.aol.com/pilgrimpub/revision.htm
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Aug 27, 2004
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    But how many words in
    the KJV1769?
     
    #8 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    This place:
    http://www.heritagebbc.com/archive3/0144.html
    says:


    Were the Chapter and Verse Divisions Always in the Bible?

    By Dr. Max D. Younce

    Question
    Are the chapter and verse divisions, as we have them today in our Bibles, the same as in the original manuscripts?

    Answer
    The answer is, “No.” The books which compose our Bible were, when written, not broken up into chapters and verses as they are today. The modern chapter divisions were probably made by one Stephen Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury, England, who died in 1228 A.D.; although, they are sometimes attributed to Cardinal Hugo (died in 1263), who used them in the preparation of a concordance to the Latin Vulgate. They are used in the English versions, from the Wycliffe’s Version (1382) to the present day.

    The modern verse divisions were first made by Robert Stephanus (Stevens) of Paris, a printer, for his Greek New Testament published in 1551 A.D.

    The first entire Bible where these chapter and verse divisions were used was Stephen’s edition of the Latin Vulgate in 1555. The first English New Testament to have both chapter and verse divisions was the Geneva Bible in 1560.

    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Ed Edwards, Aug 27, 2004
  10. natters

    natters New Member

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    To add to Ed's post, there were a few earlier translations in various languages in the 1550s (i.e. before the 1560 Geneva, but after Stephanus' 1551 NT) that contained both chapter and verse numbers, but they were only the NT.

    Also, not all chapter and verse divisions are equal - there are some variation between older translations, especially once you start comparing things like the Septuagint.
     
    #10 natters, Aug 27, 2004
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother Edwards -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     
    #11 Ed Edwards, Aug 28, 2004
  12. TC

    TC Active Member
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    For question 1, I said 33% because the KJV's we buy today are missing the letter to the reader and the books called apocrapha and those wonderful translator sidenotes that the original 1611 edition had.

    For question 2, I said 4% because for the most part, they read identical. IMHO, the differences just don't add up to all that some people would tell us.
     
    #12 TC, Aug 29, 2004
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Bump! I get more votes at the top.
     
    #13 Ed Edwards, Aug 29, 2004
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    The best figure i can come up with for words in the Bible
    is 788,258. That figure was deduced from the KJV1769 edition.
    Counting words in places like the Psalms are tricky, many Psalms
    having words before verse 1.

    Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
    a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 1% change.

    The best figure i can come up with for words in the Bible
    is 788,258. That figure was deduced from the KJV1769 edition.
    Counting words in places like the Psalms are tricky, many Psalms
    having words before verse 1.

    Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
    a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 1% change.

    I wonder how many periods, colons,
    and other puntuations are in the Bibles?
    [​IMG]
     
    #14 Ed Edwards, Aug 29, 2004
  15. Bro.Bill

    Bro.Bill New Member

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    Dear Ed,
    Please check your math.Hint your percentage figure needs help.You old enjunear.
     
    #15 Bro.Bill, Aug 31, 2004
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Oops, typo:

    Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
    a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 10% change
     
    #16 Ed Edwards, Aug 31, 2004
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Gets more votes at the top …

    Wow, i discovered the elipesis
    is ALT-0133…
     
    #17 Ed Edwards, Sep 2, 2004
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen!
     
    #18 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2004
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Thank you voter #20. Your vote is appreciated!
     
    #19 Ed Edwards, Sep 18, 2004
  20. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Hi folks,

    In my opinion, like Doc Bob said, there are quite a few changes, but most that I have studied are simple corrections for errors to the original translation.

    I cannot say that doctrine has changed or not though because of the difficulty (or lack of enthusiasm or drive to read the 1611 English).

    Doctor Bob can you comment on this, since you seem very familiar with the 1611?

    I do feel that the later version is more true to the original manuscripts that were used for the KJ version.

    Does this ring true to others on this thread?
     
    #20 Phillip, Sep 19, 2004
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