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Featured How Do the Moral Commands of the Law and Those in the NT Mesh for Christians?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Steven Yeadon, Jun 2, 2018.

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  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    How do the moral commands of the Law and those in the NT mesh in their application for both Gentile and Jewish Christians?

    As for my own response:

    After skimming most of the Epistles, I understand now that I was legalistic up till now. I thought the Law was to be obeyed except for certain parts of it that dealt with uncleanness. That is not true according to the scriptures.

    We are free of the Law (17 Bible verses about Freedom From The Law), and we are new creations through the Spirit (Galatians 6:15, 2 Corinthians 5:17).

    This is a new covenant (Hebrews 9:15). The Spirit of God has been given to us who are believers in Jesus (25 Important Bible Verses About The Holy Spirit ). The Spirit makes us a new creation, and the evidence is that we are altered by the Spirit working in our inner man (Galatians 6:15). By the Spirit we bear fruit impossible for those without the Spirit. Against such Spiritual fruit such as love, self-control, gentleness, among many others attested to by the NT, there is no Law (12 Top Bible Verses About the Fruit of the Spirit - Inspiring Scripture). Our righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20).

    We are no longer under or tended to by the Law (Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:24-25), which convicted us of sin and led us to Christ Jesus’ Cross (Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.; including cross references ). Instead, of a life of struggle under the Law, God’s righteous commands are written on our heart by the Spirit of God, when we believe with our hearts. Thus, we live free from the Law doing good deeds by the fruit of the Spirit (29 Bible verses about Circumcision, Spiritual).

    We should work out this salvation in fear and veneration of God (Philippians 2:12), in awe and reverence of God Our Father (Hebrews 12:28), while devotedly doing good deeds (Titus 3:14). These works in no way save us and we are not under the Law as if it is our supervisor. Instead, we are under grace and given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of our eternal life (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22). However, to regularly be beholden to the sinful nature causes there to be serious doubt about whether the Spirit is in someone (James 2:14-26, the whole Book of 1 John, especially 1 John 2:3-6; among many others).
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Christians have the moral law written on their hearts (Hebrews 8:10 etc.). They are not without law towards God (1 Corinthians 9:21).
    It is only the person who is born again, whose sins are forgiven, who loves God's moral law, since it no longer condemns him (Romans 8:1), but is his guide through life (Psalm 119:105-106).
     
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  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    And how shall we do that if we have thrown the words He wrote with His own finger under the proverbial 'bus?

    Philippians 2:12-13. 'Therefore, by beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation in fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'

    And what exactly is God's good pleasure? 'Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments' (1 John 2:3). 'For this is the will of God: your sanctification' (1 Thessalonians 4:3).
     
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  4. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    This challenged my new viewpoint. After research, I now posit a harsh (to those without the Spirit) Law of Christ revealed throughout the NT. Our ability to keep this Law is through the Spirit and our diligence. This makes me New Covenant Theology I have discovered.
     
  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Could you spell out your thesis? As I think I agree with you.

    I just have to rethink and amend my original post.
     
  6. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    If you mean I have thrown the Ten Commandments under the bus, that is not true. I affirm the Law of Christ, which includes the Sermon on the Mount, and is much harsher than those Commands. By living by the Spirit, in diligence to obey the Law of Christ, we fulfill those Commands and go far beyond in our obedience.
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Hi Steven,
    I'm just off to preach now. I'll try to post something for you later on.
     
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  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Psa 119:97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

    1. There is not one of the Ten Commandments that do not apply today. (Some will quibble over the Fourth one, but that's for another thread.)

    2. Jesus's 'moral code' does not go beyond the law. It is impossible to go beyond the law, as it perfectly testifies of the goodness, holiness and perfection of God.

    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets.

    Love is the fulfillment of the law.

    God is love.
    3. The law is fulfilled in those who walk in the Spirit. It's not about working. It's not about your own personal morality. The work of Redemption has been done. All manner of sin and blasphemy in those who have been redeemed is forgiven. We are in Christ. As long as He is welcome in heaven, so are we.

    O strong Ram, which hast batter'd heaven for me !
    Mild Lamb, which with Thy Blood hast mark'd the path !
    Bright Torch, which shinest, that I the way may see !
    O, with Thy own Blood quench Thy own just wrath ;
    —John Donne​
     
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  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    First of all, well done for thinking out and then re-thinking, your theology. That's good! Although you will need to come to a firm place eventually, it's good that you don't decide something and then close your mind.

    My position is basically that of the 1689 Confession. The Law cannot save me, not because of any weakness in the Law itself-- the weakness is in me; I can't keep it. That's why I need a Saviour. For the unsaved, then, the Law is a tutor to bring them to Christ; it convinces them of their sinful condition and their inability to make themselves acceptable before God. Once they are saved, however, the Law is re-written upon their hearts so that they desire to keep God's laws and are upset whenever they fail to do so. It is not their righteousness, but it is their rule. They have ceased to be slaves of sin and have become the willing salves of righteousness (Romans 6:18; c.f. Psalm 40:8).

    Christ does not have a different, 'harsher,' set of laws to His Father. That is impossible. The Persons of the Trinity are always in agreement. In the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord Jesus is giving the true interpretation of the Law, against that of the scribes and Pharisees. For example: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you.....etc." Leviticus 19:18 says nothing about hating your enemy; that was the gloss put on the verse by the Jewish rabbis. The Lord Jesus does not create a new 'harsher' law; He gives the true meaning that the Law has always had.

    may I recommend to you a wonderful book on Psalm 119? It is Bible Delight: Heartbeat of the Word of God by Christopher Ash (Christian Focus. ISBN 978-1-84550-360-4). It is a wonderful book on the sheer delight in obeying God's Law.

    I hope to write something on Psalm 119 when I get a little time. I am convinced that only someone who is born of the Spirit could sing the Psalm with delight. Here are verses 9-16 in metrical form. Try singing them to the tune of Amazing Grace or to How Sweet the Name of Jesus Sounds (in the modern setting by Chris Bowater).

    By what means shall a young man learn
    His way to purify?
    If he according to Thy word
    Thereto attentive be.

    Unfeignedly Thee have I sought
    With all my soul and heart;
    O let me not from the right path
    Of Thy commands depart.

    They word I in my heart have hid,
    That I offend not Thee.
    O Lord, Thou ever blessed art,
    Thy statutes teach Thou me.

    The judgements of Thy mouth each one
    My lips declared have;
    More joy Thy testimonies' way
    Than riches all me gave.

    I will Thy holy precepts make
    My meditation;
    And carefully I'll have respect
    Unto Thy ways, each one.

    Upon Thy statutes my delight
    Shall constantly be set;
    And, by Thy grace, I never will
    Thy holy word forget.


    If you haven't already done so, have a browse through the 1689 Federalism website.
    1689 Federalism


     
  10. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Wow, thank you for a well thought out post. It sounds like we have two differences:

    1. I took the position that Christ gave a harsher standard. I will need to look into what it means that the Law is fulfilled by the Law of Christ. I will post on this when my mind is made up.

    2. I view an attention to the Law of overt obedience as not in keeping with what is taught in Galatians. My current view is that the Spirit gives us the power to do good works and we are to be devoted to doing the Law of Christ. However, again I do not feel confident, and I will do more research. I will post when I have made up my mind.

    Iron sharpens iron, thank you.
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    'Now the works of the flesh are evident...........of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God' (Galatians 5:19-21). This is not salvation by works, but those who persist in the works of the flesh are giving evidence that they are not born of God. Those who are God's people love God's righteous laws, love to obey them and are grieved when they fail to do so, which, alas, we all do from time to time (1 John 1:5-10; 2:1).
     
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  12. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 5:17-20 alone shows my original stance to be in error. I am also mindful of Romans 3:31. We in no way cancel or annul the Law. Christ says in the Greek in Matthew 5 that he has come to consummate the Law. Consummate means to complete or perfect something. Perfect means to make something "as good as it can possibly be," and Jesus' teachings do just that. Though, given a purpose of the Law is to convict of sin, I am mindful that Jesus' teachings show our sinful state compared to the perfect standard of God in an even more obvious way than the Torah and Prophets.

    Now I am in a quandary, must answer my number 2:

    2. I view an attention to the Law of overt obedience as not in keeping with what is taught in Galatians. My current view is that the Spirit gives us the power to do good works and we are to be devoted to doing the Law of Christ. However, again I do not feel confident, and I will do more research. I will post when I have made up my mind.​

    This boils down to what is our mindset in approaching righteousness? I must also resolve to define the Law of Christ.

    That said, legalistically comparing ourselves to the Law seems somehow in error, but I will see. It seems in our new life by the Spirit we fulfill the Commands of the Law by loving our neighbor as our self (Romans 13:8, Galatians 5:14). However, I must research again.
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It is a mistake to suppose that the 'Royal Commandments' of Mark 12:29-31 etc. are in opposition in any way to the Decalogue. On the contrary, we love the Lord our God by obeying Commandments 1-4, and love our neighbour by obeying 5-10. We do not 'legalistically compare ourselves to the Law' but as Christians we love God's Law and seek to keep it because we love the One who gave it (John 14:15; 1 John 5:3).
     
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  14. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I am currently trying to interpret Romans 7:6, Galatians 3:25, and Galatians 6:15, as well as find more verses that may speak to a radical change concerning the Law in the new covenant. I will get back with you when my research is complete, but unfortunately I'll be busy today and maybe tomorrow.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Ten Commandments called for acting righteous under threat of death. Even the most depraved could not steal or murder if it was in their interest not to. But the Two Great Commandments, from which the Ten hung, call for spiritual righteousness motivated by love. You always keep the Ten when you keep the Two, but you cannot keep the Two by keeping the Ten. It's all about motive.
     
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  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Indeed they did. But are things any different under the New Covenant?
    Matthew 7:21-23. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord. Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but He who does the will of My Father in heaven..........And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness.'"
    Revelation 10:12: 'And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things that were written in the books.'

    The idea that so long as you 'love,' the Commandments have nothing to do with you, could not be more wrong. "If you love Me, keep My Commandments."
    And this is wrong too. The Holy Spirit declares through Paul, 'We have previously charged both Jew and Gentile that they are all under sin' (Romans 3:9), and 'By the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified' (Romans 3:20).
    If you really think you can keep either the Ten or the Two well enough to satisfy the judgement of God, you have no understanding of Christianity. We are not saved by love any more than we are saved by works. We are saved by grace alone, by Christ alone, through faith alone. But having been justified by grace through faith, we delight to keep the commandments of God which are re-written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 10:16 etc.). They are not our righteousness, but they are our rule of life because we love the One who gave them (1 John 5:3).
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are still under the moral law to be obeyed, not in order to get saved, or kept save, but to walk as we ought to. The power to live as we should is from the Holy Spirit now in us, so the New Covenant now grants to each one of us the means to actually obey God as we should now, by yielding and submitting to the Spirit, and not relying upon ourselves.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is the catch. The institutional churches need the Ten Commandments just as Israel needed them. Because they are stacked to the gills with unbelievers that need controlled. But Christ's body (Israel the Church) is believers only. These have the Two Great Commandments activated in their hearts through the New Birth. The believers use the Ten Commandments for commentary purposes but they are incomplete. They do not include a Sabbath. And they are missing all of the civil and ceremonial attachments.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  20. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Jesus Christ stood in my place of condemnation before God, the Judge. Through His shed blood I was/am washed clean of all the rightful charges brought against me in His court. (The Devil makes sure God is made aware when I sin.)

    I now desire to please God by my words, deeds and actions. Even so, I fail. When I ask forgiveness, I am restored to fellowship because of the completed work of Christ on the cross. Praise God for His faithfulness.
     
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