1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured How do you know you are saved?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Often in the old churches, the songs sung were about salvation and the walk of the believer.
    Such songs as:
    Savior Like a Shepherd Lead Me,
    He Leadeth Me,
    All the Way My Savior Leads Me,​
    have been relegated to rarely sung in the modern church.
    Other songs such as:
    Have Thine Own Way,
    Come Every Soul by Sin Oppressed,
    Lord, Lead Me to Some Soul, Today,​
    are just never to be mentioned.

    Now this thread is NOT about music, but INDICATORS of a drifting taking place in presenting both the message of Salvation and the Call for Salvation.

    I have (in the last 30 years) noticed that as more congregations move into a more contemporary worship style, that not just the music becomes a focus of praising.

    Now there is nothing in itself wrong with the theme of praise, but it is becoming almost to the exclusion of a demand for repentance, salvation, and Lordship-submission. It is one thing to praise the Lord for being Lord, and another for the complete submission to the Lord in leading and in mission.

    I have noticed that the literature of many Baptist churches are less likely to oblige one to carry their own Bible, and to search the Scripture references for themselves. Rather, the convenience (or whatever excuse used) of printed Scriptures has left many believers unable to find their place, much less be able to cite where a certain book of the Bible is even located. Just ask the typical modern church goer to find Hezekiah 3:16 where the identity of the Beast with the number 666 is revealed.

    In the design of the "Sactuary" of the typical Baptist church, there was (in the old days) a table, called an altar, between the congregation and the pulpit. The pulpit was directly behind the altar with the baptistry typically behind the pulpit. Now granted there were some modifications such as the addition of "choir loft" which set either to the side or between the pulpit and baptistry and height so more could actually see the preaching. But the design was not just a matter of architecture in a Baptist church, but had implied meaning. Meaning lost in the "warehouse" stage presentation look.

    The modern gathering actually sees no need to come to Christ without confession of sin, without the sacrifice of the worldly life style.

    The modern gatherers get to hear the delivery of the message not from a stand in which the sacred text is placed between them and one who delivers, as a symbol that all words must be sifted through the Scriptures and that the Scriptures are the focus. If the modern preaching carries a Bible at all, it is more often laid to the side while a socialization of the word is proclaimed. The preacher becomes the focus not the Scriptures.

    Comfortable places to worship has (imo) left folks desiring a comfortable presentation, a comfortable gospel, a comfortable life they think is well blessed by being comfortably enticed by a non-threatening, soft spoken, sweet intoned, well mannered, pep talk.

    This thread is devoted to discerning how do you know you are saved?

    It is not about salvation as one typically considers its use, but about that which demands compliance.

    Does the worship place just by the appearance present salvation appropriately as needing repentance as a sinner proclaiming the Lord as not only Lord of their life, but Lord of their ways?

    Does the furniture of the worship, just as the temple furniture, depict that the Word of God is honored above all, that submission before the Word results in a changed heart and newness of mind.

    Does the music and the preaching present a Christ not only living in us, but through us and causes the life to be driven farther away from worldly enticements and seeking more and more that which conforms to the Kingdom of God?

    How does one know they are saved if all they have is a presentation of the Gospel in which the position of God's word is not primary, in which the repentance by the Word does not lead to the symbolic death of the old and a new life lived in Him, in which the worldly has become so intwined as to make the message appealing and in doing there is no obliging to conform to the truth, in which the emotional is the primary focus?

    How does one know they are saved when there is more desire to cheer ungodly athletes than to share the gospel?

    How do you know you are saved if you have nothing to bring to the Savior after He has entrusted you?

    Do you really know that you are saved when you consider that the Savior rejects those that bring nothing of increase or even of interest when one buries that which He has given? Matthew 25:14-30

    This Sunday, who is brave enough to ask this serious question to those who claim to believe?

    HOW do you know you are saved?

    The Scriptures state, "By their fruits you shall know them."
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    23,592
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Saved people read, listen to, and obey the Word of God.
    Saved people have fellowship with other saved people.
    Saved people live like saved people--they bear good fruit. They are not hypocrites.
    Saved people may sin, but they confess their sins and trust Jesus to forgive their sins.
    Saved people sin, but they are convicted by the Holy Spirit, feel badly, and don't like their sin.
    Saved people pray regularly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Saved people also have their lives cut short because of poor respect to the Word and testimony. (1 Corinthians 11:30)

    Saved people separate from the world and worldly.

    Saved people are to be Holy and wholly devout, forsaking all and following Him.

    Saved people love NOT the world, nor the things in or of the world.

    Saved people KNOW they are hypocrites (as Peter) and are willing to take the blame when in need of correction (as Peter was twice - once with Christ, once with Paul).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    25,852
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    23,592
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sensing a theme here...

    What is your definition of the "world", "worldly", and the "things of the world"?
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did not John say, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

    Certainly, the Spirit itself bears witness with itself and with our spirit.

    BUT, such does not void that testing is not necessary.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why would you ask such?

    Certainly you know that which pertains to the world and that which pertains to God.

    Does not the Scriptures state, "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    23,592
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I know what I think it is.

    Yes, the Bible says that.

    I want to know if you think "worldly" means comfortable chairs, using a Bible app on your phone, having sanctuaries that look like "warehouse stage presentations", contemporary music, etc.
     
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is not even close to the OP statement.
     
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    23,592
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, I was wondering why you went on about church worship styles, church architecture, people not carrying Bibles, etc. for several paragraphs before getting to the actual subject matter.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was giving the presentation both from a physical and psychological view as it applied to the question.

    Back 30 years ago, even the layout of the Sactuary in a Baptist church was a presentation of the authority of God, the demand for compliance to Him and the need of the Savior.

    Those things as well as that reflected in the literature presentation, music, the teaching style are missing in the typical modern setup.

    The authority of Scriptures, the reverence of God, the expectation of a changed life and living, .... were all part of not only the physical layout of the church, but the literature, the reasons folks actually carried Bibles, learned the books of the Bible, had catechism classes, communicated with missionaries, the local testimony of the assembly,...
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    8,206
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Faith:
    Baptist
    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    and then there is this

    1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


    This is not just any love this is agape love... Brother Glen:)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    25,852
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You need prayer and fasting for your doubts and inability to discern good from evil spirits.
     
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    23,592
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is your interpretation and you're welcome to it.
     
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am glad you volunteered. I used to - regularly. But, now with all the medications, the options are less.


    Sadly, you don't seem to have the same view.

    Question for all readers.
    When was the last time you sang, "Face to Face" or "Moment by Moment?"

    What about, "I Gave My Life to Thee, What Hast Thou Done for Me?"
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    8,206
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I never led or sang any of the first two in my church but did lead an sing the third one... One of my favorites is Jesus!... Paid It All!... All to him I owe, Sin had left a crimson stain, he washed it white as snow... Brother Glen:)
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,633
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Excellent hymn.

    I miss songs like:
    “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross.”
    “Eternal Father, Strong to Save,”

    Did you know if you take Mote’s words for “My Hope is Built on Nothing Less” and put them to the tune used for “Eternal Father Strong to Save” it makes for a tremendously insightful presentation of truth.

    But enough,.

    Back to the purpose was the encroachment of the worldly casual and the salvation presentation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When you can kiss the wave and trust that it tosses you on to the Rock of Ages, you can know you are saved.

    I love this hymn:
    1
    What e'er my God ordain is right:
    His holy will abideth;
    I will be still what e'er He doth,
    and follow where He guideth.
    He is my God, though dark my road.
    He holds me that I shall not fall.
    And so to him, I leave it all.
    He holds me that I shall not fall.
    2
    What e'er my God ordain is right:
    He never will deceive me.
    He leads me by the proper path;
    I know He will not leave me.
    I take content, what he hath sent.
    His hand can turn my griefs away, and patiently I wait His day.
    His hand can turn my griefs away.
    3
    What e'er my God ordain is right, though now this cup I'm drinking.
    May bitter seem to my faint heart, I take it all unshrinking.
    My God is true each morn anew.
    Sweet comfort yet shall fill my
    heart, and pain and sorrow shall depart.
    Sweet comfort yet shall fill my heart.
    4.
    What e'er my God ordain is right.
    Here shall my stand be taken.
    Though sorrow, need, or death be mine, yet I am not forsaken.
    My father's care is round me there.
    He holds me that I shall not fall, and so to Him, I leave it all.
    He holds me that I shall not fall.
    He is my God, though dark my road.
    He holds me that I shall not fall,
    and so, to Him I leave it all.
    He holds me that I shall not fall.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    189
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Like Like x 1
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    25,852
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yes, i know exactly what you mean agedman, im 77 how about you.
     
Loading...