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Featured How Does Your View of Election/Predestination Affect Your Practical Theology?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    By "practical theology" I mean your daily Christian life. Does it have a major impact on how you view God? Does it influence how you view and practice evangelism? Is your worship affected by your soteriological position? How about relationships with other Christians? I am of the belief that our theology counts for little if it does not affect how we live. Arguably, since Calvinism/Arminianism generates the most heat on this board, is it so important to you that it is one of the major drivers in your life and if so, why and how?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It has helped me to witness better, as knowing now that only the Holy Spirit Himself can change sinners into saints!
     
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  3. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Very much so.
    Absolutely.
    If I quote the word of God and the person in front of me doesn't "perk up", then I know the Spirit is not working.

    Once in a great while, I share the word of God with someone and I see their expression and their eyes light up...we then start talking about all that the Lord has done for us.
    Those times are worth more than money can buy.

    But I no longer approach someone I don't know and say, "Do you know where you're going after you die?"
    I no longer use the methods I was taught in my former "Independent Baptist" days, trying to coax people to believe, as if their will and choices make the difference...

    Instead, I know with confidence that if God were to prompt me to share His words with someone, it's because He wants me to.
    Do you mean "does how I view God and how I praise Him for His goodness to me, depends upon my view of how He saved me?"
    I suppose so.

    For example, I'm very grateful that He chose me.:)
    Otherwise, I would not have known the difference, carried on with my "normal life" and still be in my sins...caught by surprise at the end of my life.:(

    Instead, I now have hope...hope that I will be with the Lord someday, and not against Him.
    I don't really know very many who love the Lord and take His words seriously.
    Perhaps 5 in all.

    But I do know plenty of them who profess Christ, and don't seem to care about their sin.
    In other words, they don't seem to value Christ's sacrifice for them.

    That tells me that they probably aren't saved and being led by the Spirit.
    Those I don't get into relationships with, as I find it difficult to "connect" with them.

    The ones whose understanding of Scripture closely matches my own...those I do connect with.
    My understanding of His word has only deepened my respect for Him, deepened my gratitude for bothering to save a worthless git like me, and ultimately has led me to be far more sober ( as well as at peace and, at times, having a joy that cannot be described...that God loves ME ) while I walk through this short life.

    His word has made a vast difference in how I live, if I look back over the 41+ years since He called me by His grace.
    The dichotomy is not important to me, and neither is it important that it be a "major driver" in my life.
    In other words, I don't view "theology" as driving me, but my love for a God that Has gradually revealed the truth of His word to me.

    What is a major "driver" in my life, is the fact that I have eternal life...with Someone who loved me, and gave Himself for me.
    It began to truly stagger me one day, not may years ago...that He saved me.:Speechless
    Such amazing grace!

    Jesus Christ, the hope of glory ( Colossians 1:27 ).:)
    The older I get and the more I study His word, the more I realize that my existence really is all to the praise of the glory of His grace.

    My "theology" ( understanding of the very words on the page ), has only grown over the years, and each time He shows me something, I stifle a gasp...
    Again, that he would bother to reveal such things to a "babe" ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) like me. :Notworthy

    I am of no reputation, and definitely not a "theologian". ;)
     
    #3 Dave Gilbert, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  4. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    My view of human responsibility, that my decisions matter, reminds me of the importance of my choices. The knowledge that it is God and not my choices that determine the future gives me the courage to choose and the ability to rest in Him.
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    How do you now for sure? After all, Paul planted, Apollos watered and God gave the increase.
     
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  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That is a good question. We do not understand all the workings of the Spirit when it comes to calling sinners to repentance and faith. Is it possible that the Spirit may begin His work on an individual and not bring it to fruition until a later time? It is at that "later time" that everything clicks. Perhaps that is what Dave was referring to?
     
  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    You have a point.

    Sometimes I don't know right away.
    It can take a while...
    But over time if they continue to resist, the best thing that I can do is walk away and leave it in the Lord's hands.

    However, the Bible does say,

    " He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).

    So, I look at it this way...if they are His, they will eventually listen.
    If they are not, no Scripture that I can provide will ever "get through" to them.
     
  8. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    In 1 Corinthians 3:1-23, Paul is telling them that they are yet "carnal" in their thinking.

    To me, that means that believers start out walking as "babes" ( 1 Corinthians 3:1 ), and walking "as men" ( 1 Corinthians 3:3 ).
    We may have divisions among us, and be guilty of all sorts of ungodly behavior.

    The Corinthians were following men, still walking in the wisdom of this world and preferring one over the other.
    Paul explains to them that the focus should be the Lord, not His servants.
    Each one of the Lord's servants is no better or worse in God's eyes, as any other.

    So, Paul ends up telling them in 1 Corinthians 3:21, not to "glory" in men...but in God.
    In 1 Corinthians 3, we see this:

    " For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
    6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
    7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
    8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
    9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, [ye are] God’s building."
    ( 1 Corinthians 3:8-9 )

    That is what Paul telling them when he says, " I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase."
    Not to focus on the men, but on God who sent the men to "plant" and to "water".


    The rule of John 8:47 still applies...
    God's children ( Christ's sheep ) "hear" His words...they know His voice and they follow Him ( John 10:27 ).
    Those that are not, reject them and follow the words of men.

    The Bible says, " ...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed ".
    If people persistently reject the very words, then I have to conclude that they are rejecting God in one way, shape or form.

    While I hope that they will eventually receive it, where there is no agreement, there is no true fellowship...we cannot walk together ( Amos 3:3 ).
    Regardless of my "theology", it ultimately isn't about that...

    It's about God's words.
     
    #8 Dave Gilbert, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    A 'perky' reception of the gospel doesn't necessarily mean it's going to last:

    20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
    21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth. Mt 13
     
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  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Wow. Just wow. You have the mind of God! You know what the Spirit it doing and when. That's awesome!

    I am so not worthy.
     
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  11. Particular

    Particular Active Member

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    Understanding the Supremacy of Christ in all aspects of life allows me to be content. Paul says he had learned to be content in all things. That came about as God sanctified Paul and continued to reveal His Supremacy over all of Paul's life. I find myself following that similar path of contentment. When grievous circumstances have come, God has granted me contentment in faithfully believing He is Supreme over my grief. When I lost my job and struggled to find work after the 2008 recession, I found contentment in God's Supremacy. When God has disciplined me, I find contentment in His Supremacy. The events of my life are not random and not shrouded from God. They are crystal clear and ordained for my blessing and God's glory. They are ordered. They are not chaotic. They fit into a cosmic plan where God is Supreme and His Kingdom reigns forever and ever.
    I owe everything to my King, who ransomed me when I did not deserve to be ransomed. That He chose to do it...to random me, a man who harbors rebellion in his heart and often looks for ways to over rule my King...is some kind of amazing grace and love.
    Because of my understanding of the Supremacy of Christ, I can boldly proclaim as, His ambassador, that God desires reconciliation with other rebels. Because Christ is Supreme, I am confident that He will choose to ransom other rebels as well. When I see the rebel fold into God's reconciling embrace, I rejoice with all the assembly of Kingdom citizens and I welcome them in as fellow adopted children of the King.
    God's Supremacy affects everything I do.
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that there are many who took time in their salvation experience with God, as the Lord used some to plant, others to water, and then the Holy Spirit saved!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    AND the Holy Spirit doing the work that ONLY he can do with scripture!
     
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  14. poor-in-spirit

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    We who believe unto His righteousness are His electorate because we choose Him and obey His Gospel. Because of this we are predestinated to be conformed into Christ's Image.

    So practically speaking, Christ's Spirit indwelling us compels us to fight our natural man and follow His teachings with all our being.

    If that doesn't describe us then why on earth would we claim to be Christians or followers of Christ's teachings?

    The religious brainwashing of men's teachings, perhaps?

    Remember Esau sold his birthright. God simply foresaw this. He didn't make it happen. Jacob however chose God and this alone made him a part of God's elect(orate).
     
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    This has absolutely nothing to do with the questions asked in the OP.


    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Now that brother has the right attitude of gratitude for his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... I've walked the walk and I've talked the talk... 100% Jesus Christ only happens when Sovereign Grace stares you in the face!!!... Brother Glen:Thumbsup

    2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

    4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
     
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  17. Particular

    Particular Active Member

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    This seems like a significant contradiction.
    Those who believe, have faith, are the elected.
    Then you said...because we choose Him and obey...which makes us the ones who determine our own fate by our own actions.

    It seems that either God chooses (elects) or we choose and thus gain our own right to be God's child.

    I cannot see how these two polar concepts are juxtaposed.
     
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  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    God births his own children!... We don't birth ourselves, naturally or spiritually... God elects and births his own children... We are adopted!... Brother Glen:)

    Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
     
  19. Particular

    Particular Active Member

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    Tyndale are you attempting to show me how poor-in-spirit's comments are justified or are you expressing a separation between the two ideas that were expressed?
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I don't justify poor-in-spirit's comments, there is definitely a separation between the two ideas expressed... Election is not God gets a vote, then I get a vote... Election is, God's vote is the only one that counts... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
     
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