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Featured How is the Wrath Of the Father Appeased if Not PST Atonement?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, May 6, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How is that propitiated if the atonement was not mainly PST?
     
    #1 Yeshua1, May 6, 2020
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It isn't, or, more accurately, it wouldn't be.
     
    #2 Martin Marprelate, May 6, 2020
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I can never get any who is against Pst to answer that question, except by stating that there is no such wrath!
     
    #3 Yeshua1, May 7, 2020
  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    God's wrath is poured out In the lake of fire for all eternity--Wrath is an eternal characteristic of God, which is demonstrated for all of eternity on the unrighteous.

    Through Christ's shed blood--and faith in His name--we are counted as Righteous--God doesn't pour out His wrath on the righteous. (EDIT--this is how "wrath is averted")
     
    #4 JonShaff, May 7, 2020
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  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Did someone say He did?
     
    #5 Revmitchell, May 7, 2020
  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    No.
     
    #6 JonShaff, May 7, 2020
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I made an edit
     
    #7 JonShaff, May 7, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus bore that wrath in our stead, as if he did not, all of us will have to still!
     
    #8 Yeshua1, May 7, 2020
  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Not true--God's wrath is still yet to be meted out on the unrighteous.

    The reason why we do not receive the wrath of God is not because Christ took it for us, it is because Christ has imputed His righteousness to us. The righteous do not receive the wrath of God.
     
    #9 JonShaff, May 7, 2020
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Before God could impute that though, wrath had to be propitiated and appeased!
     
    #10 Yeshua1, May 8, 2020
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  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Scripture?
     
    #11 JonShaff, May 8, 2020
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God must be both fully just and fully merciful. Justice without mercy - all perish. Mercy without justice then God is unjust.

    Romans 3:23-26, ". . . For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. . . ."
     
    #12 37818, May 8, 2020
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God the Father has to have His wrath propitiated in order to be able to renmain Holy and able to freely justify those who trust in Jesus!
     
    #13 Yeshua1, May 8, 2020
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  14. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    God has no time. Why do humans demand God do anything in their time?

    God did what God did in the fullness of time. Case closed.

    God does everything at the same time, for those not understanding what no time is.

    All 8000 years of human existence is all the same nano second to God. Nano meaning no time at all in this example.
     
    #14 timtofly, May 8, 2020
  15. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I’m not sure what you’re doing with this passage. I totally agree with it. You’re going to have to explain how this shows that God meted out His wrath on His Son in this passage.
     
    #15 JonShaff, May 8, 2020
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 53:6, ". . . the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ."
    Romans 5:8, ". . . while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . ."
    2 Corinthians 5:21, ". . . made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; . . ."
    1 Peter 3:18, ". . . For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, . . ."
    Acts of the Apostles 2:18, ". . . that Christ should suffer, . . ."
     
    #16 37818, May 8, 2020
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do you believe those passages are unique to PSA?

    @Martin Marprelate,

    Please consider that the OP could have been stated better. As it stands it is begging the question.

    You are not asking how other views deal with wrath but are declaring they do not. The problem is you are not in a position to make that determination (you hold to PSA, not those other views).

    Would you consider that maybe asking how they deal with wrath a better start than confronting them with your assessment that they don't.

    The reason I suggest this is the OP is a hotly debated topic. We all know all of these views deal with wrath but hold the position we believe correct. It looks like you are picking a fight (my dad's better than yours kind of thing) rather than encouraging honest discussion.

    Just a few thoughts to consider. How each deals with wrath is a good topic and if done with Christian intent could be a very interesting topic that allows believers to better understand each other's views and interpretations.
     
    #17 JonC, May 8, 2020
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There are none. All Scripture that could be provided say the opposite.
     
    #18 JonC, May 8, 2020
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  19. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Praise God—these are powerful passages. They still do not show us that Christ received the wrath of God so we wouldn’t. He suffered and died for sins. But the wrath of God is coming and it is poured out on the unrighteous.


    1 Thessalonians 1:10
    10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
     
    #19 JonShaff, May 8, 2020
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John Owen while being rhetorical, unwittingly stated a truth he himself did not believe in his TO THE READER, "
    Unique, I do not know that. But those passages are essentially a key part of the PSA view. So it makes [to me] no sense to deny PSA view.
     
    #20 37818, May 8, 2020
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