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How the sodomy ruling will effect your life?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Jun 29, 2003.

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  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    In the thread on the recent Supreme Court sodomy ruling the question was asked, how will this ruling effect my life? I read two or three pages of of the thread and heard a lot of rhetoric from both sides but saw little light.

    Somewhere down the line this legitimate question may have been answered but I didn't want to wade 8 or 9 pages of mud to find out; so please accept my apology if this post repeats what has already been said.

    Here is how the ruling may and will effect your life. It sickens me even to speak of these things, but this is the reality in which we now live.

    1. It will have very little effect on the prosecution of consensual adult sodomy because the anti-sodomy laws were very seldom enforced to start wtih.

    2. If your adolescent son is sodomized by an adult male it will become more difficult to prosecute the crime and the penalties will be greatly lessened because the crime will be treated as a statutory rape case. Yesterday's paper reported one sentence already vacated in a case where an 18 year had been convicted of sodomizing a 14 year old.

    This aspect of the ruling could potentially have monumental effects on the current child rape scandals that have rocked the Roman Catholic church.

    3. The ruling will give new liscence to the public schools to normalize sodomy to your children. The ruling will be hailed as a landmark victory for "freedom" in the same vein as the civil rights rulings. This will soon be a standard part of school history texts.

    4. The above being accomplished, if you have a child that is tempted by the sin of sodomy, it will be much easier for his conscience to make a decision to follow that ungodly lust since the stigma of it will be greatly lessened to his mind.

    5. As the normalization of sodomy grows most churches will become less vocal in their voice against this sin. Just as the outrage of the churches over the teaching of evolution to our children subsided as that strange doctrine was normalized through the school system, so will it be.

    6. It will become virtually impossible to discriminate against sodomites in hiring and housing. The courts will probably make exceptions for religious institutions but most other businesses, including those in which sodomites may have the care of children, will be effected.

    7. As the normalization of sodomy grows fewer sodomites will be converted to Christ.

    8. Things that will probably result from this ruling over the long term, but not so certainly as the above:

    a. Same gender marriage may become a reality.

    b. Preachers who denounce sodomy as a sin may increasingly become the target of hate crime laws.

    c. Tax exempt educational institutions which openly condemn the sin of sodomy may loose their tax exempt status.

    d. Educational institutions which teach against the sin of sodomy may lose their accreditation.

    e. Sodomy will almost certainly be added to current anti-discrimination policies on both the legal and corporate level.

    Mark Osgatharp

    [ June 29, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Mark Osgatharp ]
     
    #1 Mark Osgatharp, Jun 29, 2003
  2. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    If you adolescent son is raped by an adult male, it would be considered rape. If it were consensual, it would be statutory rape. As it should be. Rape is still rape, you know. Heterosexual sex is still legal, but forced heterosexual sex is not. Same concept.

    The case you're referring to is an interesting one. If the younger boy had been a girl, the sentence would have been 15 months as opposed to the 17 years the older boy was sentenced to. That one was already being defended using Equal Protection clauses.

    My life affected? If I marry and choose to live in Virginia or some other state with similar laws, well, I wouldn't be considered a felon. That's about it.
     
    #2 stubbornkelly, Jun 29, 2003
  3. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    #3 Mark Osgatharp, Jun 29, 2003
  4. Haruo

    Haruo New Member

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    Mark, I know you're not a KJVO type, so I won't quibble over "puberty" being found in Scripture, but I am curious to know what specific text you have in mind here.

    Haruo

    PS: As far as the initial question, my guess is it'll have even less direct effect on my than on Kelly. I do not anticipate engaging in any of the once-banned acts even after I get married. (August 10th is the big day!)
     
    #4 Haruo, Jun 29, 2003
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Hauro, I'm not Mark O. but that verse is pretty clear in just about all the versions. It's:

    Diane
     
    #5 dianetavegia, Jun 29, 2003
  6. aefting

    aefting New Member

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    In addition to that, Christian colleges that expel or refuse to admit homosexuals, may also lose their tax exemption or accreditation. There is already Supreme Court precedence for losing tax exemption over violation of public policy.
     
    #6 aefting, Jun 30, 2003
  7. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Here is excerpts from the Gay agenda as recorded in the Congressional report.

    Nowhere is this truth more shockingly portrayed than in this essay on the homosexual agenda, written by "gay revolutionary" Mark Swift and printed in the Feb. 15, '87 issue of Gay Community News. These excerpts are reprinted from the Congressional Record:

    "We shall sodomize your sons....We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms...in your youth groups.... Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding.... They will come to crave and adore us. All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men. Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable.... We shall raise vast, private armies...to defeat you. The family unit...will be abolished. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory.... All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men. Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks."

    If you had been with us at the Sodomite parade in Houston, you would see that this is already being done. One of the saddest things I saw(amongst many sad things) were the Number of youg people. I am talking about 13-18 years old children invoved with sodomy. A group of lesbians came by and looked at us and said "Oh good, we got some breeders here". Did you get that,"breeders". We breed and they recruit.

    CHURCH WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #7 Jailminister, Jun 30, 2003
  8. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Using that kind of ludicrous rhetoric to represent the views of gay and lesbian persons is like using the vitriolic garbage of Fred Phelps to represent the views of Christians.

    Joshua
     
    #8 Rev. Joshua, Jun 30, 2003
  9. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    NO IrRev Joshua, Using your views on sodomites is liking Madelin Murray O'hare views on the Power of Prayer.

    I know what I saw in Houston. All the perversion and filth and someone like you is promoting that there in Atlanta. God Help You. Not God Bless You. God Help You.
     
    #9 Jailminister, Jun 30, 2003
  10. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Joshua,

    You claiming to be a Christian and a minister of the gospel is as ridiculous as Fred Phelps' claim to the same.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #10 Mark Osgatharp, Jun 30, 2003
  11. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    I was at a speaking engagment for Barbara Bush back in the 90's when a group of GLB's came in protest. They had the most vulgar signs and one person was dressed as the Pope, offering to show us how his organ was much bigger than any church organ.... They pushed us, shoved us, said extremely upsetting things to us even tho almost everyone had children with them! Some were arrested for their actions.

    Now I know this 'group' may not represent those GLB's who attend Bro. Joshua's church, but they do speak volumes about the reprobate minds of all who endorse this vile life choice.

    Bro. Joshua, I have to agree with the gentlemen here. I also believe you have been blinded to the truth and have been given over to a reprobate mind.

    Diane

    [ June 30, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
    #11 dianetavegia, Jun 30, 2003
  12. Charlesga

    Charlesga New Member

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    Please do not make a judgement on another believer because of theological differences.

    I believe homosexuality is a sin, but we need people that minister to these people instead of calling them names and seeing how bad we can hurt them or criticize them. I sometimes overeat...that is a sin....so why don't people call me a glutton and try to get me to change? Probably because we all have things we do that are sinful, rather we realize it or not. Now, it is time that we start being the church, called to love others and tell them the good news of the gospel, instead of insisting on being the moral police, which we are not called to be. When will we realize that the way to effect society is not through legislation, but through the changing of hearts that only comes by the blood of Jesus?

    BTW, the I don't expect that the sodomy ruling will have any change on my life....

    Really? How many young people even know that sodomy was illegal in many states? I doubt there were that many. I did not know until majoring in Political Science in college and studying the Bowers vs. Hardwick case.

    Charles

    [ June 30, 2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Charlesga ]
     
    #12 Charlesga, Jun 30, 2003
  13. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Diane,

    The question regarding imbeciles like the ones who protested Mrs. Bush is, "Is there anything inherent in homosexuality that causes them to behave that way?" The simple and clear answer is: "No!"

    As evidence, look at our congregation which includes a mix of straight and gay couples who - other than the sex of sone of their spouses - are indistinguishable from the members of any other Christian community.

    Lewd and offensive behavior is wrong whether one is gay or straight. In addition, faithful Christians of both sexual orientations recognize an obligation to loving and respectful behavior that those folks obviously did not demonstrate.

    Joshua
     
    #13 Rev. Joshua, Jun 30, 2003
  14. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    God bless you Rev Joshua! We don't agree on some points, but I thank you for standing up against the hatred the church has towards those that God loves. Sometimes I think some of the responses on this board against homosexuals breaks God's heart. I *know* such comments only push homosexuals away from Christianity.

    May God have mercy on us ALL.
     
    #14 BrianT, Jun 30, 2003
  15. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    BrianT and irRev Joshua, You can love them right into Hell. If they don't repent of their filthy wicked lives that is where they will go. Don't blame me blame God. Write Him an e-mail, file a complaint. It will fall on deaf ears. There is a time to love and a time to hate. I refuse to accept that which God calls an abmonination.
     
    #15 Jailminister, Jun 30, 2003
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    So even if they're saved they're going to hell :confused:

    I don't base judgement of a person's salvation on their sins, or even their lack of turning away from sin. If that were the case, most of us would probably be hellbound.
     
    #16 Johnv, Jun 30, 2003
  17. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    johnv said:If that were the case, most of us would probably be hellbound. Well you said it.
    If there is no Change, then you never got it.
     
    #17 Jailminister, Jun 30, 2003
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Then most of us, being sinners, are hellbound, regardless of whether or not we've accepted Christ.
     
    #18 Johnv, Jun 30, 2003
  19. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    If you never changed from sinning then you are hellbound. I did not say you would be perfect, I am sayin you will not be practicing sin as a lifestyle. The term Christian and homosexual can not be used together.
     
    #19 Jailminister, Jun 30, 2003
  20. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Charles,

    You said,

    "I believe homosexuality is a sin, but we need people that minister to these people instead of calling them names and seeing how bad we can hurt them or criticize them."

    The only name which I called "homosexuals" is "sodomite" which is a term found in the Bible. I don't expect someone to refrain from calling me a liar if I lie to them, so why should a sodomite expect others to refrain from calling them sodomites when the admit they practice that sin. For the record, I don't make a practice of calling a man by his sins to his face, but when the sins must be mentioned the should be called by the biblical name. You also said,

    "I sometimes overeat...that is a sin....so why don't people call me a glutton and try to get me to change?"

    So are you saying we should not speak out against gluttony? Paul told Titus to "rebuke" the Cretians "sharply" because they were, "Always liars, evil beasts, and slow bellies. Was Paul being unkind to instruct Titus so to do? You also said,

    "Probably because we all have things we do that are sinful, rather we realize it or not."

    There is no probably about it, we all definately have sin in our lives, every day. That is not the issue at all. The issue is that heretics like Joshua are teaching that sodomy is not a sin. This does no service to the sodomite but to confirm him in his sin and hinder him from repenting.

    "Now, it is time that we start being the church, called to love others and tell them the good news of the gospel, instead of insisting on being the moral police, which we are not called to be. When will we realize that the way to effect society is not through legislation, but through the changing of hearts that only comes by the blood of Jesus?"

    I totally agree with your statement. I have no intention to push for legislation concerning sodomy or any other sin and don't believe the church should be involved in such things. We should be preaching the gospel to all regardless of what their sins are.

    I was simply answering the question which was raised in this post as to how this legislation might effect our lives. Some of these things will not effect all of us, but almost all of us will be effected by the inevitable influence of this ruling in the public schools.

    If you have children or grandchildren in the public schools they will be taught that sodomy is just a different, but perfectly normal, lifestyle. It will now be more incumbent than ever for Christian parents to seriously consider withdrawing their children from the public school system. I said,

    "if you have a child that is tempted by the sin of sodomy, it will be much easier for his conscience to make a decision to follow that ungodly lust since the stigma of it will be greatly lessened to his mind."

    This statement of mine was made in the context that the recent ruling will facilitate the normalization of sodomy through the public school system. Whether the children ever thought about sodomy or not, now they will because it will be foisted on them in the schools.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #20 Mark Osgatharp, Jun 30, 2003
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