1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured How then do we really define heresy?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jan 29, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 8
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does not matter on this topic. You are, simply put, wrong.
     
    #41 JonC, Jan 30, 2020
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    if election is for only the Jews, then no Gentile ever has gotten saved!
     
    #42 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Bible is not our final and only authority then?
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You would hold the Canons of Dort views to trump inspired scriptures?
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not true. Where does the Bible say that we have to be elect to be saved?
    I can't help but notice you have nothing to prove I'm wrong. Just you making claims you can't back up with scripture.
    MB
     
    #45 MB, Jan 31, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Were Gentiles predestined to get saved by the will of God?
     
    #46 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is heresy and there is heresy.
    ". . . For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 11:19, the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians regarding their divisions amoung them.
     
    #47 37818, Jan 31, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How would you define heresy as per the scriptures?
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is God's will that all be saved. The Bible never says that a Gentile must be elect for Salvation. The Jews are elect. Scripture never says that Gentiles are elect .Repentance has been granted the Gentiles cooperatively. All we have to do is believe. Scripture never says anyone is predestined to Salvation.
    MB
     
    #49 MB, Jan 31, 2020
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 8?
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2020
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The text refers to sectarianism by reason of causing divivisions. But as I was using the term, teachings contrary to truth. Sometimes the real truth is wrongly said to be false.
    Secondary errors are not matters of salvation. Teachings contrary to salvation are against essentials of the Christian faith.
     
    #51 37818, Jan 31, 2020
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are talking about two different things. Heresy has absolutely nothing to do with Scripture as the final authority. It is literally a departure from orthodox belief.

    Words have meanings, @Yeshua1. We do not get to say a car is an airplane because Scripture is our final authority.

    For example, Arminianism is a heresy to Calvinism. Infant baptism is a heresy to Baptists. Believers baptism is a heresy to historical Calvinism. Reformed theology is a heresy to Catholics.
     
    #52 JonC, Jan 31, 2020
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Baptism is not an essential doctrine & does not arise to the level of heresy.
     
    #53 church mouse guy, Jan 31, 2020
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does if you are a Baptist.

    [​IMG]
    Definition of heresy


    1a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma. They were accused of heresy.
    b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church
    c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
    2a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practiceTo disagree with the party leadership was heresy.
    b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standardsour democratic heresy which holds that … truth is to be found by majority vote— M. W. Straight
     
    #54 JonC, Jan 31, 2020
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I go by the Nicene Creed. Anything that contradicts the Nicene Creed tends to smell ‘heretical’ rather than heterodox or orthodox. Contradicting the CLEAR teaching of scripture is the final litmus test, but the Nicene Creed provides a good early warning litmus test.
     
    #55 atpollard, Jan 31, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you really believe what Webster says on this that someone not baptized will go to hell?
     
    #56 church mouse guy, Feb 1, 2020
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Nicene Creed is false on a few points. And typically those who go by that Roman Cathoiic dogma place it over what the written word of God teaches. Ok, you are not claiming to place it over God's word.

    Here is what I am going to ask you to do. Provide Biblical Scripture for portions of it. Are you up to that task?
     
    #57 37818, Feb 1, 2020
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Nicene Creed:

    Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν Πατέρα παντοκράτορα
    ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων·
    καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν
    τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ,
    τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,
    Φῶς ἐκ Φωτός,
    Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ,
    γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα,
    ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί,
    δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·
    τὸν δι' ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν,
    καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου,
    καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα,
    σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου,
    καὶ παθόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
    καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς γραφὰς,
    καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς,
    καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐν δεξιᾷ τοῦ Πατρὸς,
    καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς,
    οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος·
    καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ Κύριον καὶ Ζωοποιόν,
    τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον,
    τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον,
    τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν·
    εἰς μίαν ἁγίαν καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν·
    ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·
    προσδοκῶμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν,
    καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος. ἀμήν.
     
    #58 37818, Feb 1, 2020
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is not “portions”.
    Could you be more specific on what part of the Nicene creed you find HERETICAL?


    נוסח ועידת ניקיאה
    אני מאמין באלוהים אחד, האב הכול יכול, בורא שמיים וארץ, כל הגלוי וכל הסמוי. ובאדון אחד, ישוע המשיח, בן יחיד לאלוהים, אשר נולד מן האב לפני כל הדורות. אל מאל, אור מאור, אל אמת מאל אמת. לא נברא כי אם מולד; עצמו עצם האב ועל ידו נעשה הכל, בעבורנו, בני האדם, ולמען ישענו ירד מן השמיים; ונהיה בשר מרוח הקודש ברחם מרים הבתולה ונעשה אדם. נצלב למעננו, סבל בימי פונסיוס פילטוס, ונקבר. וביום השלישי קם לתחיה כדבר הכתוב, ועלה השמיימה, והוא יושב לימין האב. ושוב ישוב בהוד לשפוט את החיים ואת המתים ולא יהיה קץ למלכותו. אני מאמין ברוח הקודש, האדון, המחייה, הנובע מהאב ומהבן. לו סוגדים ולו נותנים יקר – כלאב וכלבן, והוא אשר דיבר בפני הנביאים. אני מאמין בכנסייה האחת, הקדושה, הכוללת והשליחית, ואני מכיר בכך שישנה טבילה אחת למחילת החטאים, ומצפה לתחיית המתים ולחיי העולם הבא. אמן.​


    ... otherwise my response is “No. I have no intention of Scripturally proving every word in the Nicene Creed.”
     
    #59 atpollard, Feb 1, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·

    We confess
    one
    baptism
    into
    forgiveness
    of sins.

    Where does the word of God teach this?
     
    #60 37818, Feb 1, 2020
Page 3 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...