I am abandoning TULIP

Then you also have poor vision!

 

Better poor vision than not at all.

 

rc;
A degree in diddly squat isn't woth diddly squat
Catholic priest have degrees does that make then 100% right.
I read Russel the founder of the watchtower society had a degree in theology from a Calvinist seminary Imangine that. I wonder was he right about everything.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

There you have it!

 

rc;
There is really no master but one. No matter what you know.
Jealous of you? I couldn't be jealous of you. You have nothing for me to be jealous of. You would have to be better than myself in some way and you're not. Not to say I'm better than anyone either we all have fallen short of the glory of God. Man's glory isn't nothing. I've been to school as well but you don't see me hanging out my degree and saying because of my degree I'm right and you're wrong. If there is one thing I've learned the hard way in life is that just when you think you know it all some young uneducated kid comes along and shows you don't know nothing. Not only that he does it in way that you know that he's right and you are wrong.
I've never said that education is a bad thing of course it isn't. However it doesn't make you a genius either. Most of all it doesn't make you any more right about a subject that is improvable anyway. That is why a seminary is called a school of theology. There is no scientific evidence of what we believe there is only experience that the rest of the world laughs at. We may know and believe what we believe to be true. The problem is can you convince the rest of the world tomorrow.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

There you have it! </font>[/QUOTE]I don't mock a person with a degree, I work with and among them daily. What I mock is those with degrees that never learned to think things through!

 

Actually rc, there have been several church council's throughout history that have called TC's doctrine of E.L.E.C.T heresy! If I were you, I would run hard and fast from this devil's work!

 

Oh my goodness.... not again!!
ILL still hasn't found one....
NOW I will ask you... which sola scriptura church has condemned Calvinism !! Ha ha.... you won't find one !!

I'll be waiting for your apology for making things up.... still waiting for ILL to say he made his comment up.

 

There you have it! </font>[/QUOTE]With your degree, Plus $2.75 You are entitle to purchase a cup of Starbuck's lousy coffee....while the rest of us non-degreed people buy a great cup of non-starbuck's coffee for a buck!

 

On Iluvlight's behalf, here is a quote concerning a council of the church condemning Calvinism.

 

No man living today is still under the penalty of death ?
Surely you jest.
Prove it.
Scripture.
All men are saved.
No one will be judged anymore.
No books will be opened.
No great white throne judgment.
No such thing as a lake of fire.
Scripture.

 

PinoyBaptist,
Before Christ, there was no one who lived without sinning. Sin brought with it the penalty of Death. So no man before Christ could have everlasting life because of the penalty of death. That includes David, Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Joseph, etc., etc.

The Christ came, and his sacrificial atonement for sin, was a once for ALL atonement of sin that removed the penalty of sin from ALL in ALL times. Thus No man faces death for sinning!

While the penalty was on man, no man could have everlasting life because every man sinned and had to die for their sins. But because Jesus atoned for ALL SIN in ALL TIMES, the penalty was removed from man SO THAT, by believing in God the Son, Jesus the Christ, man can now have everlasting life. That means, Revelation 20:14,15, that no one who believes is cast into the lake of fire, THE SECOND DEATH. Also, Jesus told us that whosoever believes in Him passes FROM death INTO eternal life.

PinoyBaptist, I do not have to prove what I am saying, you must accept the whole effect and affect of Jesus' atonement for sin! Either he atoned for ALL sin or he did not. Either the atonement removed the penalty of sin from every man or it did not remove the penalty FROM any man. Scriptures say that His atonement was for ALL THE SIN of the World so that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Scripture NEVER Equates Atonement with Salvation, so NO man is saved by atonement. However, no man can be saved without the atonement for sin, because the atonement took the penalty of sin from man thus ENABLING salvation through faith.

The scripture never says that no one will be judged, it says that those who believe in Jesus are not judge, but those who do not are judged by their unbelief. John 3:18

What you are failing to see is that all men believers and unbelievers alike will have their works (deeds) judged, tested as if by fire. Those works that are good come through fire in the manner that Gold, silver, and precious stones come through the fire, unharmed. Indeed, Gold and silver are refined, purified by fire. Deeds that are bad, are consumed in fire like wood, hay, and stubble, leaving only worthless ashes. Even so the one committing those deeds does not perish in the fire for the deeds they have done.

Only those whose names are NOT FOUND in the book of life get cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

So, NO! ALL men are NOT saved! ONLY those who have faith in God are saved. The deeds of All men are judged. Those who have faith have their names written in the book of Life, those who do not have faith are blotted from the book of life.

Yes, there is a Great white throne Judgement, but only those who lack faith in God are so judged.

Yes those who appear at the Great Whith throne of God do indeed get cast into the lake of fire.

The judgement of man is based entirely upon the individual man's faith in God!

 

Wes:

Yours is a lot of blah-blah-blah with no Scripture to prove your doctrines with. And the sad thing about it is that you are the one contradicting Scripture, not the other poster whom you accused of twisting Isaiah in another forum.

And you contradicted yourself with the last part of your post.
In another forum you seem to be contending that God wrote the names of all mankind in the Book of Life.

 

Perhaps you do not understand that the names in the book of life just might be ALL who will have life in this present natural world. Then as each life is lived, if the person does not come to faith in God, his name is blotted from the book of life. So that when the judgment comes, that person's name is not found in the book of life, and the person is cast into the lake of fire.

You see, Pinoybaptist, you perceive that the book of life contains the names of only those who will be saved, while I think that the book of life contains the names of all who will live the natural life and be tested by living that life, then if their name is found in the book at the judgment, they shall not be cast into the lake of fire, but shall pass from death into life everlasting.

Test this against scripture, see for yourself how it fits.

 

Wes:

Read word by word and comprehend, if you will.

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev.17:8

When was the book written ?

From the foundation of the world. It said 'written' (past tense). It is a finished book, with the names of those whom God had elected unto salvation.

The verse did not say 'they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names are not in the book of life being written from the foundation of the world'.

They that dwell on the earth shall wonder and follow after the beast because they are not God's people.

Your 'just might' is the problem with your doctrine, Wes. The Bible is definite about the reasons why men follow the anti-Christ and anti-Christs, and you refuse to accept that as God's truth, and would rather think there 'just might' be a way out.

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

But the very elect will not be deceived because their names are in the Book of Life.

John 10:4-5

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers
John 10:27 -

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

There are no believers in this great white throne judgment, Wes.

All of these are the wicked, who are being judged according to their works, not according to Christ's work.

Unfortunately, none of their works pass muster, and because there is no Savior who will stand up for them, and they have had and do not have no one to intercede for them, they are condemned to the second death.

Ever heard of the five judgments, Wes ?

1. The judgement of the elect's sins. This was done at the cross, when Christ bore the penalty which every elect child of God rightfully deserved.

2. The judgement of the believer's self. This is done when the believing, elect child of God, confesses his sins daily. Keeps his account short.

3. The judgement at the seat of Christ. Some call this the Bema judgement, which I do not hold on to in the sense of it being a judging and rewarding that occurs in heaven while the great tribulation is happening on earth.

I do believe that the believer's works is judged, but not to eternal condemnation, here on earth. We PB's call it timely salvation.

4. The judgement of the devils, at the end of the age, concurrent to:

5. The Great White Throne judgment.

 

I SAID SOLA FIDE CHURCH !!! WES ...

So you are going to use a Catholic man (in this case eastern orthodox) to refute protestantism?

That just proves my point!! Thank you !!

Funny how you don't bold this part
" We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone , but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works ". ...

If you are using this you lost ALL credibility.

Guess you believe in faith AND works also huh? Since this is what you are using for your banner of truth! HA !!

Why not use the Quorums of the Mormons and the Statements of faith by the JW's to declare your position also?

What do you honestly do? Google "Calvinism and heresy?" Didn't get much in the way of councils did you !!

Geese... the Confessions of Dositheus... that's the best you can do! And you think we put all our eggs in one basket "Leaning of the teachings of man"? At least we have the whole of the protestant Church's in their counsels formed from the greatest teachers and leaders of church history on our side! What are you leaning on? The confessions of Dositheus? The scales have been weighed... and you have been found wanting...GREATLY !

 

I gave you an example of one council that condemned Calvinism rc. I did not say that I agree with that council, so back off!

Iluvlight is therefore exhonorated of any guilt you laid upon him! He made no false statement!

You too can find the same information by searching the web for "Calvinism condemned" as I did. It is not my information that I posted, so jump right back out of my knickers!

 

It is your turn to read word for word and comprehend that what is said does not preclude the idea that every person who has ever lived, is living, and will live this natural life, had his name written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. It also does not preclude the idea that as we live this natural life we are given the opportunity to hear God's word and either believe or disbelieve. What matters is this, upon our death (separation of spirit from flesh) if our spirit is not in the condition of having faith in God, our name is blotted from the book of life, and at the judgment our name IS NOT FOUND and we get cast into the lake of fire. Please, please, please try to prove me wrong!

 

I used "just might" as a device to attempt to get you to rethink about what is said. You didn't but instead deliberately set out to attack me. ....oh well!

 

I gave you an example of one council that condemned Calvinism rc. I did not say that I agree with that council, so back off!

This is a non-secatur!! There were stipulations given in the challenge ! Wes... You AND ILL are still on the hook !!

The reasons you don't believe in what they say Wes... IS BECAUSE THEY ARE WRONG !! That only VINDICATES CALVINISTS !! Thank you...